I know this is pointless, but whatever... The arms were NOT a new concept or idea. They had been doing ball jointed shoulders and elbows in Star Wars figures for a long time, and they all pretty much have always been able to bend the elbows to at least 90 degrees. Even a few of the figures from the final waves of VvV and DTC had the same style elbows that worked better than some of the 25A figures. General Hawk wa the worst that comes to mind. I didn't measure or anything, but it seemed like he could barely get past 45 degrees. They certainly shouldn't have needed to be 'learning as they went', since it was something that was already in place more successfully at the time.

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Citing mattel as as an example of it being Ok for Hasbro to do it too.... is not really good reasoning. Both companies have a track record of doing things that aren't exactly fan friendly. Also both seem perfectly ok passing the blame on any and all screw ups whenever those screw ups ups come to light.

Using the old joes as the model, reuse of body parts, was only the "norm" for the 82/83 line up. After that it was done for mail ins and other oddities.

Using the current joes, I think it is Ok to reuse body parts, in fact I think the entire modern line could be done with nothing but ten different torsos, ten different waists, ten different sets of arms, ten different sets of legs, 10 sets of feet, 10 sets of hands... then new individual heads, gear, and special parts like major bludds arm. The line theoretically would be a lot cheaper and easier to run. However, if they do that, all the parts used need to be damn near perfect. The parts need to be well sculpted and they need to function correctly. So Joints that move correctly hands that can hold weapons correctly etc... On top of that, the designers in charge of the line need to be able to put the best parts together for each individual character. When dealing with the current line basic part swaps are difficult because not all modern parts even remotely fit together.

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Those are some very poor attacks on my argument. I rest my case. Hasbro was lazy. Moving on.

Could it have been a cost issue somehow? Did a lack of movement allow for cheaper production and lower cost for the figures for the consumer? Or was it as some say, flat out laziness?

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

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i doubt it was flat out laziness or cost. i think it was a poor design. You could argue laziness though when it comes to green lighting poor design instead of fixing it. I would think they wasted more money "fixing" diaper crotches and all that jazz.

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Believe whatever you need to in order to get through your day. Those of us that know better wont be cursing Hasbro in our sleep for not being perfect and making mistakes just like every other company in the world.

It wasn't laziness, it was experimentation. These designers who had spent years working in one format and design style suddenly changed to a completely different format. At the time they were doing extraordinary work. Were there some flaws? Absolutely. But they kept at it and improved and eventually created some of the best figures we've gotten in 30 years.

Calling what the Hasbro team did in creating the new 25th style format lazy is just ignorant trolling. Haters gotta hate because it's the "cool" thing to do. If you don't like the style of the new figures that's one thing. They aren't for everyone. But don't discount what Hasbro did as laziness just because you don't like their decisions.

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Well at first we were to only to get the first 2 5pks and that was it. Then Hasbro liked the design of the new figures and expanded the line to what, 15 single card figures for 25 figures to represent 25 years of ARAH, and the line was to end.

The diaper crotch issue wasnt an issue since there were no plans for vehicles. Once the Hasbro saw the line pick up, they went back and fixed those issues. Diaper crotche fixed to fit the "new" vehicles and the articulation issues got fixed, the pea sized heads fixed. For a line that was only to be 25 figures at first to still be around today, is far from Hasbro being lazy.

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I have yet to ever post anything on Joe customs because it was the cool thing to do.

Green lighting a poorly worked out design, and designing something completely new are two different things. As my above post stated. The designers worked really hard and gave us some decent looking updated joes, for the most part, but when it came right down to it many elements of the 25th era feel rushed. It looks like items got a pass that should not have. That is where the idea of it being lazy comes in. 25th line compared to the completely new and unique Sigma Six joes was a bit of a let down. hate them all you want but the Sigma joes had great design work and solid construction and a new unique scale and sculpt style. 25th rehashed 80's design in a new body style that had issues fans griped about from the get go. Hunch back scarlet if I recall was one of the first shown. The big gripes we see are the suicide duke wrists and such, but there are tons of little gripes about pretty much every 25th figure, floating hip holster for the duke legs often gets over looked for example. The headsculpts...ug I had forgotten about them. As far as hasbro going back and "fixing" those goes, that is great good on them, but most fans already purchased the 5 packs and the first wave and whatever else. needing to go back and re buy "fixed" copies of toys they own is not something you win over your fanbase with.

Also Pyre, I am fairly certain no one here needs to even remotely think about hasbro to get through their day, nor are any of us cussing them in our sleep. Your hyperbole and assumptions as to your fellow collectors motives and reasoning shows you really don't understand how some of your fellow fans think, and that is ok. It is ironic though, since our hyperbole and assumptions are why we don't always dig what some corporation claims as to why product X failed in some way. If it wasn't for all the smugness in your posts I am sure by now we could have had many delightful conversations.

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Hasbro hasn't been lazy once that I can recall. Inept, unable to plan ahead well, and under a lot of outside time and money constraints, yes; but not lazy.

Now them Mattel jerkasses working on the DCIH line, they were lazy. Since then they've just been contemptuous of 18th scale.

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Sigh, I'm not trolling. I'm dead serious. When I say hasbro was lazy, I'm talking about how they reused bodies that were poorly designed from the beginning. I suppose I should have said that hasbro was incompetent when they created the 25th line. They touted the figures as being the best versions of these characters ever made when in fact the original vintage versions were still superior in many design aspects. Like I said, they've gotten a lot better since, but the damage was already done. Hasbro should have designed them better from the start. For example they had plenty of experience prior to this line with the same style of arms, yet they goofed on many of the early 25th figures' arms. Don't attack me just for stating my opinion. I'm far from ignorant on this topic. I watched along with others as the 25th line and it's design flaws ripped a major divide in what used to be the wonderful community at Joedios. There were many arguments over this kind of stuff over there, and the site was never the same afterwards. Some embraced the newer figure style, some did not. It's times like this I'm glad I got into customizing, so I can continue collecting and making my own customs to expand on what hasbro sadly chose to abandon.

Let's all try to figure out how to discuss our opinions without trying to make someone feel inferior for not agreeing with us. In other words play nice or don't play at all.

The early 25th were a lot of form over function. I think it took them until the latter part of the 25th with some of those Resolute figures to figure out how to get the sculpting and articulation to be of the same quality. RoC was hit or miss but still better than most of the early 25th. By PoC they were on fire, nailing every single figure out of the park.

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Actually, I disagree with this... hard.

Rise of Cobra was Homerun City, inspite of the movie based designs. The toys were GREAT, and set the groundwork for the PoC/30th stuff to go even further into Homerun City' downtown boroughs.

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I agree with that, if the RoC film didn't have such boring designs those figures would be some of my favorites. Really it is just their color pallet that sucks.

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PoC set the standard. I have to agree we need a definitive Scarlet and the Original 13, and Oktober Guard could use updates.