I doubt this will get to the DCC people being posted here, but I threw this up on the Fwoosh forums in that hope. I throw it up here just for shins n' grits.


Howdy, DCC People;

We’ve not had much interaction over the years as I’ve got fairly narrow toy needs and you guys haven’t offered a whole lot of stuff to meet them thus far. But I see a lot of promise in your new GL line and rumored subsequent pan-DC line.

I thought I could see issues of concern in the great pics from SDCC, but I waited to get Kyle and Kilowog in-hand before forming any firm opinions.

As an 18th collector/customizer, I want many of the same things all customers want in a good toy product: sturdy construction, workable engineering, detailed sculpting, and crisp paintwork. Some other issues I care about more than other collectors may care about, such as compatibility with pre-existing 18th lines.

In the sculpting and paintwork departments, I can’t see any need for significant improvement. There’s always room for improvement so I won’t say you should quit trying to do so; but I see no issues with Kyle or Wog in whether each fig looks like the character. They do, and that’s what I want so it’s good for me.

The engineering needs some work in a few areas, however. As a frequent Hasbro customer, I’m accustomed to certain styles of joint engineering. Hasbro generally does a very good job in making solid joints that allow for a wide range of movement, especially in the last few years worth of GI Joe and Star Wars figs. This is an area you guys should focus your attention. There’s nothing wrong with the specific style of joint you’ve chosen at any particular POA, but many of those joints are poorly molded or otherwise executed. Kyle’s left thigh constantly falls off the left hip ball of both my fig and a friend’s fig; and I’ve read of numerous similar instances. The problem isn’t that it’s a pop’em ball-n-socket joint, it’s that you don’t allow enough room in the pelvic cavity for the thigh to swing around before it hits something to then pivot the socket off the hip ball, and that you don’t form the socket at the top of the thigh into enough of a ‘cup’ to grab the hip ball. You’re molding it as an open-mouthed U instead of as a pinch-mouthed C, the difference between I hope isn’t lost due to this site’s font choice.

I don’t have any problems with any other joints just falling apart, but all the joints could benefit from an increase in their range of motion. Many of the joints have over-sculpt of the socket the limb rests in, such that the limb comes to a stop well before the anatomical limit of the human(or whatever) body. This is most obvious in the shoulder sockets lower side preventing the arms from coming to a proper vertical resting position, but an issue in pretty much every joint in both figures.

Also, flying characters need the ability to look up. In my personal opinion, an action figure has to be able to assume as many of the character’s representative poses as possible, lest it be more of a statue than action figure. Flying characters being unable to look like they’re flying is a pretty significant liability to me, and easily rectifiable as we’ve seen the Marvel Universe figs do in recent waves.

Rectify these issues and you’ll have a good solid action figure line; that may very well still fail due to a lack of intercompatibility.

I don’t know how prevalent it is with collectors of other scales, but GI Joe and Star Wars are so dominant over the 18th scale of action figures that it’s practically impossible to find someone that self-identifies as an 18th collector that doesn’t own anything from either line. The sheer profusion of items to be found in those two product lines – now being augmented with similar-scale items in Hasbro’s Marvel lines – makes them the defacto standard for 18th collectors.

Many companies try to insinuate themselves into the 18th market while refusing to conform to the Hasbro standard, and none of them find themselves doing so for very long. Frankly, even companies that do conform don’t necessarily last long, either. But I think selling to what Joe/SW collectors want is the sure and certain way to long term profitability for any 18th DC line.

Towards that end, you’ll want to make the humans bigger. Personally, I have no problem with the raw size of Kyle’s body, but it only works as a teen’s body in comparison to Joe/SW figs until one takes the head into consideration. Kyle’s head is really what makes him incompatible, imho. It’s the same size as the head of a MegaBloks figure. It’s just inhumanly small compared to every human head found on 18th scale figures from any line or company, from what I can see.

For the aliens of a Green Lantern Corps, this issue isn’t relevant. Many online complain that Kilowog is too small, but so long as he’s a large lumber brute I’m fine. I’m not that much of a stickler for non-humans. So long as this remains a GL-centric line I’ll be happy, but if the line transitions to a larger-DCU line with a human majority I don’t think I’ll last long. Despite the vast improvements in overall action figure quality these figures have over the Infinite Heroes line, the similarity of scale inherent in their too-small heads keeps them from being compatible with the hundreds of other figures I have that can all inter-mingle. And frankly, I’ve got enough customization skill that I can make any DC characters the way I prefer them and the lackluster sales of DCIH and Mattel’s other 18th DC product demonstrates that many others can go without unsatisfying DC figs.

So, that’s my advice:
Increase the human scale (if not raw size) by increasing the head size
Improve the range of motion at all joints
Improve the durabiltiy of all engineering

Do those things on a par with Hasbro’s better offerings and you should have a long-lived line that I at least will enjoy buying from.

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DC won't read all that even if it gets to them.

Bringing up Marvel and Star Wars is reason enough for them to ignore it.

I admire the intent and agree with many of the points you make, but I also have to agree with NFC: the way this is written makes it much too easy for the company to ignore.

You'd be better off going much shorter and leading into a series of bullet points. And be very selective/concise in what you list (is the looking up thing as important as the head size or joint deficiencies?). Three key ideas tend to be about as much as anyone can absorb/consider, especially if they're criticisms.

And I'd avoid mentioning Hasbro. You can say you collect other 1:18 toys (even naming the lines) including vehicles and play sets, and that these figures are just a touch too small for your collection. But saying "do it like Hasbro does it" will put up their defenses (after all, no one wants to be thought of as a knock-off artist).

You know, that's so odd about how Star Wars are part of the standard for 1:18th toys according to you, yet they're smaller than Joe and MU figures, and in fact are already quite nicely in scale with the new DC Collectibles line.

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Only recently has this happened. Within the last year or so SW figures have began to reduce in size, while the other Hasbro lines continue with the set scale. If you consider the actors(Actresses) that the figures are based off of tho, the size is more accurate as they are on the short size for the most part.

AV,

I like the intent of this letter, and only wish that someone in DC would actually take the time and consider all things about the toys before disregarding your points out of hand.

And please, please please please, don't shorten figure to fig. That's fanboy, and you don't want to be fanboy. Not for this.

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Thanks for the interest and support, gents. The suggestions are kinda moot since I've done thrown it out there. I doubt anything 'real' will happen from it, but I can't help but think that Joes and SW set the standard for what 'we all' want from our hobby and I presume DCC would like to know that so they can grab every penny they can from the sales of these things.



Scale /= raw height. The DCC figs are of a smaller scale because Kyle's head is too small to be seen as realistic by Joes and SWs, regardless of whether they're looking across eye-to-eye. I can handle people being of different heights since that's realistic, but there's not as wide a range of normal head sizes as the wide range of figs sold as being 18th scale would suggest. I know you liked the DCIH line, Jay; but I think its demise shows that's not what most 18th buyers want. DCC would do well to avoid those issues, such as scale incompatibility.

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I agree with a great many of the points, but holding SW articulation to a candle is to ignore that Hasbro is also the company that will give a figure with exposed legs, limited to no articulation (Savage, Assaj, many of their other figures), yet will give FULL articulation of legs, knees, and feet to a figure with a fully static plastic robe or gown accessory, totally disabling the figures ability to move from the waist down at all. That in of itself is actually poor designing, to create a posable figure that cannot be moved because the outer clothing restricts it. Was the same for ROC Baroness come to think of it. Paris edition had her with fully posable legs confined to small movements due to the plastic drapery.

Same for Marvel Universe. You cannot move X-23's legs higher without augmentation of the socket. You shouldn't have to become Gepetto the Toymaker to enjoy a toy, but many augment her socket. I found that the first run thighs work far better in the confined space than to augment the socket. Even their choice in joint plastics are haphazard. Where flesh would be aesthetically fitting (on an exposed ankle, shoulder, etc.) you get deep green or where the torso would benefit from the same plastic color as the arms and legs (suit designs/coloration/styling), they will go for the oddest combination.

Point is, to address an articulation issue, it would be better to show it with a concise list of the problems, and show both in letter and with an applicable clear set of photos how the augmentation can be improved. Our perceptions of the "industry standard" will never be welcome in the design community, because to date, not one single company has created a figure that can pass 100% with no design flaws in construction or articulation. There will always be that spinning torso...that loose ankle or elbow joint...that confined movement due to poorly thought out plastic drapery on the figure. We can scream that some uniformity on neckballs would be useful as well as some consensus on articulation for the figure that rides a vehicle, and still they will give you the opposite. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't so much that they don't know and accept that things can be improved, but more that they hate being told that what they gave you in the first place wasn't perfect.

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