I'll take a shot at this one.

Customizers. There are some really good ones out there, that can look at a figure and reproduce it with amazing accuracy. There have also been instances where folks will take something and re-cast it for mass production.

Granted, something like these techno walkers can't be that easy to do given their very nature, but something like the 95 Ninja Commandos, where various parts were used from existing figures would be VERY easily copied.

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And how was the Ninja comandos a bad thing though.

I understand the "devalue" debate but with any collectable that is the gamble you take (ask anyone who collected comics in the early 90's, still tons of X-Men #1 and Death of superman comics floating around just as an example).

Still though NC Budo was released with Mortal Kombat Movie figs so again how does that not devalue the original (in fact it increased the value of the MK version).

Put me in the catagory of "I don't get it" cause really I collect for fun, not profit or even noteriety (yeah I know I can't spell). I am in it for love of the game (or in my case, love of the scale, 1:18th or at least close). I just honestly don't understand the mentality that creates these kinds of situations.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "take something," wouldn't that require the cooperation of the original owner anyway? I mean, I doubt repro makers are running into these people's houses, making a mold really fast, and then leaving before they're caught.

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You said it yourself with the "devalue" debate. To someone who dropped $1000 or more on something, that may be a very big deal to them.

I, too collect for fun and enjoyment, and that's how I look at this hobby. Some are out there that WILL spend the big money on one of a kind items and the such, and spend countless hours researching the history. That's not me, but at the same time I have to respect that if that's what they want to do, that's their business.

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I can see how that would be misleading.

How many threads have there been here and elsewhere stating "identify these parts" asking to ID legs, waist, arms, or torsos of a figure in a PICTURE

That's what I meant. Taking a picture of something (like the prototype countdown that was posted in this very thread) and identifying the parts used, recreating it (possibly with some sculpting required), casting and reproducing it.

Understandably the casting and reproducing isn't something we see every day, mind you it COULD be done.

Take the Black Ice from our own Joecanuck event a couple years back. Sure, it was a glorified custom, but I know for a fact some folks ID'd the parts, casted, dyed and reproduced some.

So it DOES happen and CAN happen, based on nothing more than a picture.

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True but like I said any, ANY collectable is a gamble. I know guys who dropped hundreds of dollars on one copy of Harbinger #1 (which was around $200 back in 1993) multiple times thinking it would be worth tons later, now you can find it in the .50 cent bin (sometimes the .25 cent bin). I know guys who spent well over $1000 for muliple copies thinking this was it, thier vesions of Amazing Fantasy #15 or Giant Sized X-Men #1.

Speaking of GS X-Men, that is a book I took a dive on, I bought the book in 1985 and ended up having to sell it, for much less than I paid for it (even though X-men 2 was out at the time). The "Offical Value" was more than I paid for it, but I hadn't counted on how many copies actually existed and thus a lot of people passed on even 1/2 value of the comic. I ended up getting 1/4 value for it, I am not bitter nor begrudge it,that is what happens from time to time with collectables, and its something that if you cannot face when you walk in, you need to walk out ASAP.

I have taken nose dives on tons of items, from artentinain and European Joes to even prototype SW figs. I have gained a great deal too, so in reality I probably broke even.

But the fact is if you are willing to drop $1000 on any collectable you need to face the harsh reality that the item could be worth 1/4 or less value for tons of reasons (More in existance than originally thoguht, reprints and redecos, even lack of interest). If you can't you have no business dropping that amount of cash in the first place. Not to sound so polarized but really after 30+ years collecting you can't help but see this happen accross all lines and all branches of collecting. Its a reality.

You're talking two Totaly different things here though Zed... We're talking one of a kind, two of a kind pre production items....not Production level Comics or figures.

yes Interest may wax or wane, and in 20-30 years there might be no market for these items...but that dosn't effect the Current Value.

A huge portion of the Devaluation of an item can come from the Misinformation that accompanies a gotta post the picture 1st mentality. Look at the unproduced 95 figures and how their names have been fixes....Is Battle Rangers Footloose Really footloose, or is he Shipwreck, or Leatherneck? What about Flint...might he be Cutter?

How many people think they saw a Legit PDD on the shelves? Tons...How many can be tracked down? a handful...honestly One... The misinformation that was spread by YoJoe on an item like that has a Huge effect on the Value of an item.

How about the SB Payload Variations in color and weapons? Same with the Shirt or No Shirt 94 Lifeline.... Posting Information as Fact without confirming it can lead to disastrous concequences.

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At the end of the day, I understand people wanting to see these items, but as a capitalist I believe that it's their right to deal with their property as they see fit....and that includes wanting or not wanting to share their stuff with people who they (apparently rightly) don't feel that they can trust.

Hi volleydan

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wassup....brother?

Sorry. Couldn't resist, with the Hogan screen name.....

Screen Name?

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He IS the real hulk hogan...

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He has much hatred on unproduced Rocky Balboa figures, so don't bring them up.

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I can go one better - someone that is selling those Black Ice figures are passing them off as one of the ORIGINAL ones. I once sold backers for the Black Ice figures, and someone emailed me asking for theirs to be done. Since each figure was numbered, I included THAT number on the backer. The person replied with "There's no number, and I didn't get a file card, I didn't know there was one". When I asked who sold it to him, he never replied.

I know it's a little off-topic from this thread, but there ya go.

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It's quite on topic.

What it does is force those holding "authentic" Black Ice's to be able to prove that they are authentic, whereas before there was no question as the real ones were the only ones that existed.

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