It's been over a year now, closer to a year and a half since we first got our first 25A figures, and I think I've had a chance to get into it a bit, and also to step back and look at the line a little more objectively. I still like a lot of the 25A line, but I can see a lot more flaws in it than I used to as well - at least, as far as I am concerned. This is all strictly my opinion, based on my experience and observation. Maybe you'll agree, maybe you won't, and that's cool.

First, I'll cover what has been driving me bonkers...

Stupid choices. Yes, the 25A line was meant to be a tribute to the original line, I get that and I appreciate that. But why on Earth would you pay tribute to what was pretty clearly a flaw in the original design? Major Bludd's arm is one of the great mis-steps of the 25th line. Who wanted THAT paid tribute to? Especially since that and the head was the only part of the figure that resembled the original? Deep Six was always a useless toy. Why make another useless toy 25 years later? It seemed like it was only a tribute when they did something stupid, but they had no problem deviating from the original design on Zartan and Serpentor. And then there is the Iron Grenadier's ridiculous giant freaking uzi. Holy crap, was it REALLY neccessary to make it so oversized AGAIN?

I have also come to the conclusion that there is only one real improvement in the 25A figure: The double jointed knee. The torso joint does not add anything that I have been able to discern, movement wise, and it does take away from the aesthetics a bit. An o-ringed figure can move in most of the same ways, if not more (though the o-ring generally snaps back into position once you move your hand). The arms are a clear step back - though they don't have to be. I don't understand how they can get a full range of motion out of those elbows on Star Wars figures, but not with the Joes. Even on the 'fixed' Duke arms, the elbows can't hit 90 degrees. Almost all of my ARAH figures can fold their arms, so to speak. To the best of my knowledge, none of my 25As can. Then there is the head. In theory, I prefer this type of joint. But in practice, most figures can get little if any latteral movement out of the head joint. The ball joint on many RAH figures gave more up/down motion. This feels like a step back again for me.

I understand the need to re-use parts and do so many repaints. I just don't like it. When the first figures were done, it was only intended to do the 2 5 packs and that's it. Understood. So it was a nice touch that Roadblock and Gung Ho and Destro were so huge and towering over other figures. Kept the scale right. But they seemed to throw that plan right out the window after that. It's ultimately a minor point, but it's there.

So what is it that I DO like?

I like that it exists. I love finding out what's coming out down the line. I love opening my new figures and takingthem to work and setting them up on my desk. I think it's great that they took the extra step to attmept to mimic the original packaging. I love going to the store and seeing GI Joe on the shelves, or a little kid walking down the aisle with Destro in his hands. That's pretty gnarly.

I like the figure designs. On most of these figures, I am blown away by the job they have done with the sculpting. the detail that modern technology allows to be on the figures is astonishing. I love that roughly 80% of the figures closely resemble the original designs form way back when.

I love love LOOOOOVE that we are getting vehicles. I loved opening my Rattler so much and putting the stickers on, I did it twice! I am drooling all over the internet because of the pictures of that new Water Moccassin. The Trouble Bubble and Vamp are GREAT toys, and it IS pretty cool having a sharp, minty new black Hiss tank.

For the most part, I have gotten, or will get, almost all of the figures I had on my wish list for a 25A line, with a few minor grumbles about Dr Mindbender not getting the single card treatment. There have been a couple of head scratchers in there, but with so many classic characters, it is easy to overlook those.

The Para Viper is freaking awesome. I can't recomend this figure more. Great figure.

I love the accessories, for the most part. The use of web gear rather than sculpted on detail works great, only occassionally interfering with articulation, but not overly so.

I like that I have been able to find so many uses for all these extra Cobra Commanders in customs. Definately slightens the sting of so many reissues to the pont that I am almost excited to see a new one soming out in a set that I will be getting anyway so I won't have to trade for one. Now if I could just find a use for all these featurless silver heads I have...

It's been a pretty cool year to be a Joe fan, I can admit it. Hasbro has done a pretty good job. As they move more away from the 25A theme and into Resolute and movie territory, I anticipate that my purchasing is going to cut back as well, though I will always watch what is coming out with great interest. These are fun toys and It's a good time to be a collector.

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Honestly, I thought the repaints would bother me, and mostly they do. However, when we get hings like "Pilot Scalett" and other, less subtle nods to International characters I'm fine with it.

It's odd, I never thought I would be a fan of international repaints, but for some reason I can't get enough of them in 25th form.

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The 25A figs have definately been hit-and-miss for me. All the added articulation points are great, but they do not have a great range of motion. After 25 years, all I really want is a figure that can kneel or crouch while realistically aiming his rifle. Many of the figures just come off as too skinny or lanky. I'm not a big fan of the torso joint, since it look so obvious on many of the figures. Another gripe are molded trigger fingers: I love them when the figures can actually get their finger on the trigger, you would think Hasbro would test this out. If the figures cannot consistantly hold their weapon without it always pointing inward, I'd rather Hasbro just go back to the old handgrip.

I'm glad the 25th line exists, but I only buy them infrequently. Unless it's Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, or Firefly, it's fairly easy to me to pass on most figures. The ones I do buy, I usually only buy them if they come with cool assessories. I have a feeling I'm gonna buy pick-up the Para-Viper for his gear only

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I'm 50/50 on these things...


I live seeing 'em on the shelf, I like buying 'em, and I like seeing the next wave coming.

However, I rarely have ANY desire to open them, and even less desire to touch them once they are opened.

This is the first figure line I think looks best in thier package, unopened.

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The torso joint has been my biggest complaint from day one. What bothers me at this point is so many figures have it and its not ruining the estetics (ie Destro, Quick Kick, Storm Shadow, Snake Eyes V3 deco) while on so many others it totally ruins the figure (Croc Master comes to mind since he is recent) and they keep doing it over and over.

Also speed of releases is bothering me, just too much at once, I saw 3 waves TODAY and the first time I have seen any of each, no way I could buy that much.

WHile I appreciate the need for repaints I hate that it keeps getting to be a character for the sake of a character, DVD packs exemplify this. While some unique and intersting figs are made (Radioactive SE, Diver Baroness) at the same time some needless repants are done (Destro from Weather Dominator pack, CC from Pymyd of Darkness, ) it gets a bit frustrating. Cobra Diver is a great example of how to get bang out of the mold, do something different and fresh.

Now the pros.

Great new figures, Tracker, Wraith, Cobra Diver, Hard Master, all new and fresh to me and I feel like I am out of that "rehash after rehash" moment. Even artic snake eyes seemed new just cause I hadn't seen the design before (although it can be argued that he was done in the comic pack as well, similar recipie but in aplication looked very different, again though he was one of those repaints that didn't feel like he treaded old ground like the cobra diver).

My major and, really, only consistent gripe is that it often takes two-to-three releases of a character before Hasbro gets it right.

The textbook example is Major Bludd. The first release was just so clearly off the mark and the right recipe (the one they eventually arrived at for the desert set) was so obvious, I have to wonder what the rationale was for the original release.

Same goes for Destro (for his v1 look, the DVD pack was the closest to true and it was the third use of that mold), Flint (finally getting a classic color version with rolled up sleeves on the third use of the mold), Duke (how many did we suffer through before they corrected the most obvious problem with his wrists?), Snake Eyes (we finally get the iconic 85 version in black but only after a half-ass conversion of the first way-overused mold and an initial release of the proper one in purlple), and Cobra Commander (looks like version 10,201 from the Best of the 80s pack will finally give us a non-pin-headed chrome faceplate version).

It makes me wonder how long we'll have to wait for non-jaundiced Gung Ho in his original colors and proper versions of Clutch, Steeler and Short Fuze that don't use those absurd new lower legs. Maybe we'll get those around the same time as our corrected Grunt?

But what annoys me also really excites me about this line.

The fact that we have seen so many corrected versions of characters is an indication that Hasbro's listening to us and, more importantly, seems to care enough to respond. I can't say I ever expected that level of commitment from them to truly give us what we say we want. I'm quite appreciative for their responsiveness.

I'm also appreciative of the hiatus (or at least slowdown) we're going to see in vintage-inspired product once the movie comes out. My wallet could use the break.

I think there are two main reasons I remain pretty ambivalent towards this line. The first is, I already own the vast majority of these characters. I bought them in the original format, and I still believe that to be G.I.Joe's best incarnation. The second is, I do question the idea that these figures are superior to the originals. I don't believe that the detail is any better or worse, really, than what could be found in the original line, I really don't like that mid-torso articulation (works well on Clone Troopers, not so much here), and there is the compatibility issue as well.

I'll admit when it comes to toys in general, not just G.I.Joe, I tend to be of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset.

That having been said, there are some things I do like. I'm pleased they brought in Matt Trakker. MASK was a cool line which doubtless will never return in full. This was a cool way to do a tribute of him. I rather hope he's not the only one. I'd go miles and cause a lot of mayhem to see some more...

There are a few other new interesting figures. Really, how overdue is just the concept of a Para-Viper, never mind a figure of one? And Lord knows if ONE figure from the original line desperately needed a remake in ANY format, it was Nemesis Enforcer...

And while most of the vehicles are direct remakes of the originals, I will gladly pick up a Cobra Stinger or two when they come out, since I rather stupidly (and I have to think accidentally) sold off ALL of my original Stingers some time back, the Arctic HISS sounds interesting, and if Hasbro decides to throw something new from Tiger Force or Python Patrol our way, I'd hardly say no.

And hey, the new comic books by Larry Hama in the figure sets have generally been a fun read. I hope these continue.

I will always be a Real American Hero fan first, foremost, and always. But I'm not sorry to see G.I.Joe on the shelves, and there are a few items of interest to me, even if I remain less than interested in the figure format.

I have to say that I'm glad Hasbro brought us the 25th. I've really enjoyed many of the figures, once I find them that is. I love the sculpting, and the articulation for the most part, and the non-gun accessories are great. Sorry Hasbro, but you've got a lot to learn about guns from Marauder John. Although the Beachhead gun redo that came with the Desert set and the upcoming comic Beachhead set with the removable mag is a nice step.
I think what's bothered me the most is the "Oh so close!" syndrome. Quickkick with no ankle joints. SE v2 in grey and no backpack. Duke with diaper crotch. Iron Grenadiers who can't hold two handed-weapons. Wraith whose arm weapon cable snap when you use them (mine haven't because I'm afraid to pose him). Diver Baroness with permanent flippers.
Then with so much product in the pipeline its hard to figure out which version of a figure do you get. Sometimes it seems like you have to get 3 or 4 versions of a fig to get his proper accessories, proper paint, and fixes. Or you have to get 3 figs that you don't want (or already have) to get one you do, or pay the Evilbay scalpers.
I think as a joe fan what's annoyed me the most is how long its taken to get the original 13. Adding insult to injury is the fact that a good chunk of those guys have been only available as exclusives.
I think as I've learned to be patient and highly selective in what I get, I've become very pleased with what I get.

If I may add one additional comment, a small frustration. Some of the special sets, the TRU exclusives, have had some great ideas. The Cobra Night Watch set had a better uniform design than the traditional-style set, I liked the Crimson Guard "officers" they did where they repainted the "chestplate", and those "greenshirts" that came with Firefly were light-years ahead of that traditional-style Joe Infantry set from several years ago, which was -- eeeesh.

Any of these theortically COULD be done in the traditional RAH format. Molds exist for them. There are no traditional-style molds for a Para-Viper, or Wraith, or Matt Trakker. I accept that. But I see these other sets, and I get this "If only..." thought in my head.

Really I see this a great deal with Star Wars all the time. In fact SW figures are loaded with rehases with alterations that you just scratch you head and wonder why didn't they di it that way to begin with. Darth Vader is a perfect example, FInally this year he had a figure with BOTH ball jointed knees and arms (rather than just one or the other) drove me insane when I would get one and discover the legs didn't have the articulation. But all the characters seem to go through this on some level in that set, so maybe its a hasbro thing.

Hrm.

I can see the appeal of the new line. It's shiny new, well intentioned versions of largely popular and iconic characters.

That said, it's not for me. I tried to like the figures, but they just turned me off. The scale is different, the accessories weren't fully interchangeable (like backpacks), I felt the articulation was inferior, and the durability was sub-par in the copies I got. I agree with Zed; the figures look much better on the cards than off.

I think the vehicles are more fun than the figures. I actually really like most of them.


bearcatcc

What I like:

Double hinged knees
Swivel wrists and ankles
Larger framed figures- for appropriate characters
Removable webgear
International-inspired figures
Cartoon sets

What I dislike:

Still no original head for Grand Slam (26 years now)
Mid-torso articulation point
Not enough new characters
Arms that don't hold poses or weapons
Too many repeated characters
Only a few new uniforms on old characters
Footpegs/backpack holes not retroactively compatible with older figures
Hard to take apart

I like to customize my joes to make them as lifelike as possible and for that reason I fand the 25th to be pure garbage. I like the accessories but the figures are horrible IMO.

Forgot one other pro to these, Single packed, lest we forget the 2-packs of JVC-VvV in which we HAD to get figures we didn't want with figures we wanted in many cases and the insistance on Hasbro to have a "Battle in a box"

If it weren't for the 25th line, I wouldn't be here, plain and simple. For years, as an adult, I would browse the Joes in the toy aisle, looking to see if they were as cool as I remembered as a kid. And they never were. Heck, the ones I had as a kid, when I look at them now, aren't nearly as cool as I remembered. I never bought a new G.I. Joe from age 12 to about age 34. But now I own more than is reasonable - counting both carded figs I'm saving for my son, and loose ones I buy to customize. It's not just nostalgia that got me into this line. It's the overall appearance, compared to previous versions. This line seems tailor made for adult collectors and customization.

Since getting into this line, I have picked up some of the "new sculpt" figs as well, mainly to use as fodder, since they are pretty cheap now online, or at the dollar stores. But when I stand one of those up against a 25th - it's not even close, appearance wise, in my opinion. I know the scale is potentially better served by the older figs. But that doesn't mean they look better. And I know I'm not an old-school guy on here, but with eyes not conditioned to the old lines, I can tell you the new line is just better looking (again, imho). Flaws? sure. The lack of a back screw is an obvious one, since it would still work, even without the O-Ring construction. But I can live with most of them.

On the mid-torso joint - I really think this is overstated. I completely get what people are saying. And I understand that the 1/6 scale type fig that the articulation point is based on is meant to be a "nude" figure where the clothing would cover the joint. But when I stand a 25th next to an O-ring, at least the 25th stands the way I meant him to (unless he has Gung Ho feet), where as the O-ring immediately snaps into a forward facing slouch. Never mind that the O-rings deteriorate if you're dealing with older figs at all. And with figs where the joint is more bothersome, then using the webgear can in many ways help disguise it as a joint.

Before getting into the 25th line, I was into 1/6 scale customization. The 25th style allows for so much more variation in size, customization with other toy lines, and a more 1/6 scale feel, I think this more than anything is why I have such a preference.

I know from reading this board religiously that the 25th line is a tough sell for many people. But I think most often it's the detractors that are understandably vocal about it. I'm sorry for the disjointed comments (and I'm prepared for the backlash on the opinion ), but I wanted to make sure it was known some of us really dig this line more so than the older lines.

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