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Why are transformers more popular?
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Author:  psychoviper [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Why are transformers more popular?
I don't know if this has been discussed before, but like the title says, why are Transformers more popular than G. I. Joe? They have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of more fans, way more toy incarnations, more toons, their movie came out first, the vintage ones go for bigger money (in general), more exclusives and specialty items, etc.

What I don't get is, why? They both started out at about the same time (early 80s), targeted at the same market, put out by the same company, both had a daily cartoon on, both had a comic (again by the same publisher). From my purely subjective point of view, Joe had better toys and a better comic. Transformers, however, had the better cartoon. I seem to recall back in the 80s toy store shelves devoted equal space to the 2 lines, or maybe even more to Joe due to the bigger vehicles. My friends and classmates collected both lines, one didn't seem more popular than the other.

Internationally I can almost understand. Joe was too American to appeal maybe to other countries as much. But it still had a strong international presence.

Yet for the last decade or so Transformers has pulled waaay ahead of Joe. The easy argument would be that giant battling, transforming robots appeal more to boys, but do they really? I would think hi-tech elite commandos with sick gear and vehicles would too.

In fact, I don't mind at all. It keeps most of the vintage stuff (almost) reasonably priced, and usually makes it easier to find new stuff at the store (at least until 25th came along).

I just wonder what factors you guys think account for this? Anyone have any good insights?
Author:  ArsGratiaArtis [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
Easy answer is every toy is really two instead of one. Joes have great figures and great vehicles, sure. But Transformers give you both in the same package. Parents find it a good value and kids with short attention spans can go back and forth at a whim. Also, everyone loves robots.
Author:  Darko [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
Transformers just had more going on, I think. Really, every toy was like two (or maybe even three) toys in one. You got a giant fighting robot AND a car/plane/animal/whatever. Special Ops commandos are cool, but in the end, they're still human. Transformers were giant robots that turned into things and wailed on each other. It's hard to beat that. Plus, Transformers never had to deal with being unpopular due to world events like GI Joe has had to at several points over the years. Don't get me wrong, I still prefer Joes, but I can understand why more people turn to the 'bots.
Author:  J_Man [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
While G.I.Joe was off the air, Transformers still had a cartoon on. That's the quick and easy answer. There was nothing all along to tell kids "we're cool, buy us". You can sell a pile of crap to kids if you make it interesting enough on tv and give it a 30 minute cartoon in a good time slot.

There was the time before that Transformers sold about the same as G.I.Joe. The toys just didn't do that well. Generation 2 didn't really do well either. There just wasn't a cartoon on or any commercials for kids to get to the idea to think they had to have it. They're making sure to put the Transformer movie out the same year as the G.I.Joe movie otherwise there will be a point where G.I.Joe will out sell Transformers. Assuming kids like the movie well enough. Cause you can't just have a show, it's got to be good enough that kids want to watch.
Author:  dakullprt [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
1. Two toys for the price of one
2. Sci Fi
3. A fantastic story that gets deeper with time
4. The transformers never went away (Beast wars and Rid had free reign)
5. The main guy turns into a gun Cobra Commander turns into a Cobra
6. The main good guys turns into an 18 wheeler , Duke turns into Flint who turns into Hawk who then turns into Falcone


Now I'm no Tformers fan but for my 8th birthday I got Optimus prime and for 28th birthday I got optimus prime.
Author:  Scramble [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
The best parts of GI Joe are the characters and the mythos. The best part of Transformers is the concept. So you have to know GI Joe before you can see that it's cool. If you know anything about Transformers, you can see that it's cool.
Author:  PaidLoad [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
The whole giant robot thing kinda clicks with the japanese/geek crowd in a way joes can't. B/c they're cooler :shifty:

Also gotta go with the toon but in defense of g2, wasn't that the lame pastel purple Galvatron & Dirge crappy figure era? Or is that still considered g1?

and boring characters too.

oh, just realized there's the always confusing soap opera backstory/multiple timelines garbage that they've tried to tie all together like it's star wars.
Author:  HypnoHustler [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
Plus Transformers is a more malleable brand. G.I. Joe is limited to the military concept, and any changes to it (Star Brigade, V-Troops, Sigma6, etc) are generally poorly received. Now, while Beast Wars wasn't initially well regarded, it's quality and consistency won people over and essentially gave the Transformers brand the freedom to reinvent itself as needed. So, Joe is bound by the military concept and the "real-world" setting whereas Transformers can be anything as long as there's robots that change into something else. It simply has the potential to appeal to a wider audience.
Author:  Goldbug [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
I'm a fan of both. :-D
Right now the newer TFs don't interest me. However if it is a Masterpiece version then I will go out of my way to get one.
My current main obsession is with the 25th Joes.
Author:  White Line Nightmare [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
Giant Robots > Army Men
Author:  GITrekker [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
I think everyone's made some excellent points so far, but the ones I would be inclined to emphasize would be:

Versatility and Playability. The toys TRANSFORM, they've been through Beast Wars, a wide range of assorted concepts, and they just keep coming.

Media Exposure. There has been an animated series of some sort almost straight through the entire run, and a generous supply of comics books as well.

Robots are less controversial than soldiers. Although the 3-3/4" G.I.Joes are a more "character driven" concept than their generally more military big brothers, there's still the aspect that the characters in G.I.Joe are PEOPLE and SOLDIERS of a sort, and unfortunately, that rubs some folks the wrong way who wouldn't have that same attitude towards robots (although some do).

Honestly I think the first two are the biggies -- the Versatility and the Playability of the toys, and the Media Exposure.
Author:  newwavepop [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
im 35,36 in a few days actually.i grew up in just the right time for all this stuff.
i remember when star wars came out and me and all my friends going crazy over it.
i remember when g.i.joes hit and me and all my friends went crazy for them.
i remember when he man came out and me and all my friends went crazy for them.
i remember thundercats,voltron,speed racer,g force,even the dungeons and dragons cartoon game and figures and me and my friends all went crazy for them.
when transformers hit,my friends all went crazy for them.i hated them,i still hate transformers.i must be the only person alive that hates them,but i never ever for one moment liked them.i have never to this day understood the appeal.
ok they are big badass robots,but they also turn into some plain dumb thing and they hide.i just dont get it,never have and i still can not stand them.
then the new film came out and everyones dream was coming true.and again ive been made mad by transformers because now i cant help but blame the transformers film for making shia a big star which led to him being cast as indys son.I HATE YOU TRANSFORMERS!!! ;-)
Author:  notpicard [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
I'd really like to know how well both cartoons were distributed. Where I lived, the last episode of G.I.Joe that aired (broadcast TV....which was important then to most kids in my area) was the last part of the second mini-series. We never got season 1 nor season 2. The only way I saw episodes was when I would be with my older brother at his friends house (he had cable + betamax) or on rare occasion when I'd catch a bit on the neighbor's giant satellite dish.

On the other hand, Transformers was on one channel early in the morning prior to school and on another channel (that came in over the antenna much better) as soon as I got home. I see a lot of people talk about Transformers airing before or after G.I.Joe. Where I lived, He-Man was on before Transformers. And I think it was Heathcliff, sitcoms, or something else uneventful that came on afterward.
Author:  J_Man [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
The easy solution for the idea "giant robots are cool", knock offs come to mind. I think about the GoBots too. Many robots changing to whatever have come and gone, but Transformers stays due to having media presence. They are cool and many people like them, but the movie proved that it takes media presence to sell them. The movie toys didn't really do that well at first. At KB Toys, they sent them in weeks before the movie. Sure I wanted certain ones, but nobody else seemed to. After the movie hit, you couldn't keep them in stock. All of a sudden, instead of just a few adults buying, tons of kids were going wild over them.

To me that just sums it all up. You can have the coolest toy robot in the world but if you don't have something to amke everyone see how cool it is, it won't sell. G.I.Joe is still made up of a cool concept, good characters, and many other things. Kids just don't see that because there's nothing to show it to them. Sigma 6 was doing good, but Hasbro only invested in 13 episodes. It died fast once there was no cartoon.
Author:  zedhatch [ Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why are transformers more popular?
I think the biggest thing is that TF reinvents itself all the time. It stays fresh and therefor people continue to buy.

G1, g2, Machine wars, Beast wars, Beast machines, Energon, Universe, Movie, animated (and I left a ton out in that list), all of them are a new universe unto itself (useually) and the characters are new and different than the last group.

Joe on the other hand have been the same, pretty much Duke you first saw is the Duke still on the shelf. It's kind of repetitive.

I noticed too SW got the hint and expanded alot into EU stuff, add to that the fact that there are newer levels of articulation in the old favs and you have a winning combo for them.

One thing the movie is going to do is give a fresh take on Joe. In some ways this is ironic when you consider Joe has been the most maliable of all the universes (Almost everyone tweaks GI Joe to their own likes and dislikes).

He-man has suffered from this as well (as well as not being able to locate figures) but even after the figures went to the secondary market and dropped price, many people don't even bother, The most common thing I have heard is "Its realy not that new, nothing exciting.

Anyway that is my take, I could be way off base but honestly that is how I feel based off of talking to people as well as my own feelings.
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