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 Post subject: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:19 am 
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Over in the GI Joe Discussion Group on Facebook Gyre-Viper posted some pics and explanation of the old school process for creating vehicles before CAD and milling machines came along. The pattern maker, who wishes to remain anonymous, explained the process with some details I know I've never heard before. So thanks to him, Gyre-Viper, JoeDeclassified, and the GI Joe Discussion Group for bringing this all to light, with pics.

Gyre-Viper wrote:
So I've been talking with a former, oldskool Hasbro pattern maker from the 80's/90's (who would like his name kept out of this so that people aren't all up in his face) and I asked him if he could sort-of give the quick-and-dirty of what goes into making the pattern for a vehicle, etc, at least from his experiences. So instead of paraphrasing and bullet-pointing, I figured I'd just use his exact words. Some of the images posted below have been seen before in this group. Some have not. Today's lesson: "MODEL SERVICES DEPARTMENT FLOW"
Hasbro Model Services pattern maker wrote:
"For The Model Services department the flow went like this:

A kit bashed model would be made by the Design guys, the ones with the design degree, in the R&D department.

A Styrene base model was made then parts from car, airplane, trains, military vehicles, store bought models were added.

Have a close look at a vehicle; you can make out disk brakes, transmissions, rear view mirrors, in the oddest places

The Designers would then take that model and draw up blueprints as to how the finished product should look.

The pattern makers would then build a precise wood pattern with the correct amount of shrink factored in. That means the pattern was .004 inch per inch larger than what the part that came out of the injection mold.

The pattern was built to the parting line and everything had draft applied. That means every vertical side had at least 1/2 degree angle so the finished plastic part could be release from the injection mold tool.

Remember, plastic shrinks once the part cools so that means if a toy was 12 inches long, we would have to scale everything up. The wood pattern is actually 12.048 inches long.

Doesn’t seem like much but if the shrink rule isn’t followed you won’t be able to mate any of the parts.

I’ve included the pictures of two wood patterns for tooling. The reason you will not find any here in the States is that we shipped the wood patterns overseas as the actual injection molds were cut directly from these patterns.

Patterns were works of art. Precise, made to the parting line, real master pieces. I say this with a great deal of pride as this was all done before CNC and we were holding tolerances to .003” inch. That’s an actual hair width.

We built these not only because it was our job, but also to try to impress our coworkers. In my case it was just to show the old timers that I could do it. Mind you they were New Englanders and also Patternmakers so it was extremely hard to impress them. You knew you did a good job if on the next job, they would share a trick or technique with you.

If you didn’t have the right stuff, the old timers wouldn’t waste their breath on you.

The Engineers many times would take there measurements off the pattern we built and then make tooling drawings.

Remember again, this was before Cad and the compound curves developed on a toy would be near impossible to create in a standard three view drawing on a drafting table."

-Joe Declassified


Packaging just for reference for the pics that follow
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Ghostriker 1.jpg
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Carved wooden vehicle pattern of the underside of the Ghostriker jet
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Ghostriker 2.jpg
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Blueprint drafts
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Ghostriker 3.jpg
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Ghostriker 4.jpg
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Individual part patterns
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Ghostriker 5.jpg
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Ghostriker patterns in their tooling frames
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Ghostriker 6.jpg
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Ghostriker 8.jpg
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Zanzibar skiff in its tooling frame
Attachment:
Ghostriker 7.jpg
Ghostriker 7.jpg [ 19.67 KiB | Viewed 670 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:53 am 
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Gyre-Viper wrote:
This is something he also mentioned in a previous conversation which I pro'llies should have added above:

Hasbro pattern maker wrote:
"We built the ad and catalogue prototypes as well as the tooling patterns for the orient or Portugal to cut steel."

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 Post subject: Re: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:54 am 
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One of the things I've always wondered was why there were mock ups with styrene, some of wood, and some of clay. I knew some of it was designer preference, but now we at least have a specific reason for the wood mock ups.

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 Post subject: Re: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:10 am 
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RPG Spin Master
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man.

It will never be done that way again due to computer modelling, but wow. That was some serious craftsmanship - and that's only going back to the 90's.

It's like hand drawn animation. Yes with computer animation you can accomplish so much more, but a certain artistry is lost. I think with the 3d scanners and digital design shape creators anyone will have the capability to prototype something and have it look good.

But before the computers came, there were artists with wood carving tools that hewed a F-16 out of what was once a tree, and there's something a little bit magical about that.

- R

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 Post subject: Re: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:40 am 
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This guy I've been talking to has white hot reverence for the old way of doing things. He talks about it and makes it sound entirely legendary. All that precision for toys which were never really meant to be collected or preserved or anything like that. All that work into models that were mostly destroyed. (Of course if you're coming to Joe Con and pop by the Declass Booth, you're gonna see some sh....stuff). :shifty: :whistling:

I was talking with Guy Cassaday a couple months ago and he said that doing models in styrofoam was completely hazardous to your health. Says he's inhaled more saw dust and styrofoam etc than anyone should ever have to. And the result?? Serpentor's Chariot. The General. I mean these guys BLED and wept over
things that were just going to end up being played with and then discarded. And these days, not that there isn't any work or skill that goes into it, but certainly nothing like before. Nothing like back then.

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 Post subject: Re: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:47 am 
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I don't have anything to add, I think Raps said it best -- I just wanted to say thank you for sharing -

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 Post subject: Re: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:33 pm 
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joemichaels70 wrote:
I don't have anything to add, I think Raps said it best -- I just wanted to say thank you for sharing -


Agreed, nothing really new to add. Just want to say I am in awe of the precision and skill that went in to crafting the mock ups that would go on to become someones favorite toy, or even least favorite toy.
I know plenty of people who don't even care for the Ghost Striker as a toy, but if they were to learn this I would hope they would have an all new appreciation for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Old School Vehicle Designer wood mock ups
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:30 pm 
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Quote:
Have a close look at a vehicle; you can make out disk brakes, transmissions, rear view mirrors, in the oddest places



True dat. Inside the access panel to the ASP is the bottom of car engine. The whole machine gun from the Silver Mirage is a european car engine with a torque tube. (where they had the actual transmission in the rear of the car.
The missile launcher from the SnowCat is the rear of a Patton tank.

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