JoeCustoms.com
https://docs.joecustoms.com/forums/

So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .
https://docs.joecustoms.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13581
Page 1 of 1

Author:  narceron [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

and I post this, in the critique, but it didn't belong there:

Hmm, is that what tiger force is? A low budget attack team using surplus or captured vehicles?

Thats kind of neat, I'd like to hear the all powerful raps justify this one with one of his detailed gubment heavy stories, seriously, somehow, I can see America doing this.

But wait, wasn't all the python patrol stuff like radar invisible?

So we are fighting high tech stealth with army surplus?

This is exactly why the joes need 400 members to fight 30 cobras, lol.

Author:  Asphalt [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

hmmmm, you have a point.
those bio writers need, and designers need a stern talking to.

Author:  pluv [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

You ever wonder how Destro ended up being one of the good guys in the later run of the Marvel comics? You ever wonder where that "surplus" of Cobra vehicles came from? Tiger Force was created for a couple of reasons. 1) Opposition forces for GI Joe to train against. How better to figure out what your jets and armor needs are then facing the enemies vehicles head on. 2) Contractually bound under US contracts with MARS.

The problem is you can't just say you are going to blow up a new a-10 or armored tank. So all of this gets hidden under surplus armor. Since we're buying at a discount no one looks twice.

Python Patrol was created with thermal detection/radar resistant paint. But this was MARS pulling the old car salesmen with the old junk with a new coat of paint trick. These aren't the older models and refurbished enemy vehicles anymore. Nope they applied a new fancy schmancy coat of paint to them. In the comics they showed it wasn't entirely invisible to electronic detection either.

Author:  Tsunami [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

narceron wrote:
and I post this, in the critique, but it didn't belong there:

Hmm, is that what tiger force is? A low budget attack team using surplus or captured vehicles?



A gross exagration, but I think you know that.
anywho, that is one way to look at it.
As already stated though, it is a way to study and understand your enemy and his equipment, analyze equipment for strenghts and weaknesses
Undeerstand enemy capabilites and doctrine, train against their equipment, etc....

But are they surplus? In real years, the Tiger Sting was only 4 years older than the Vamp MK II, the Dragonfly was still in use by the joe team in the comics and the cartoon, as was the devilfish and the Moccasin, so is it truly fair to call them surplus?
Aslo, we are talking about cutting edge tech vehicals, a few years past their prime. they are probably still pretty hi-tech compared to your average armed forces even when they get transitioned over to the TF/NF/PP teams.

Author:  narceron [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

an interesting point, one I can see being applied to a real world example, allies.


It would have been cooler to have the tiger force be a true international force, using vehicles with modern, but not cutting edge tech to defend allies on their turf. Reminds me of how the french share their fighters and what not.

Would also explain why the snow cat was a desert vehicle in their reasoning.

Author:  Tsunami [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

narceron wrote:

Would also explain why the snow cat was a desert vehicle in their reasoning.


Not sure if I will ever understand that one!

Author:  roguetiger [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

Tsunami wrote:
narceron wrote:

Would also explain why the snow cat was a desert vehicle in their reasoning.


Not sure if I will ever understand that one!


The Snow Cat is basically a half track. In WW2 in the sands of Africa and other short wars the tracked vehicles moved better across the sand than the wheeled vehicles did. Wheeled vehicles almost have to run flat or with a lot less air to drive over the sand. So therefore the Snow Cat would work well as a desert vehicle. I presently have one painted in desert camo but waiting for some parts before I submit it and such.

Author:  narceron [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

roguetiger wrote:
Tsunami wrote:
narceron wrote:

Would also explain why the snow cat was a desert vehicle in their reasoning.


Not sure if I will ever understand that one!


The Snow Cat is basically a half track. In WW2 in the sands of Africa and other short wars the tracked vehicles moved better across the sand than the wheeled vehicles did. Wheeled vehicles almost have to run flat or with a lot less air to drive over the sand. So therefore the Snow Cat would work well as a desert vehicle. I presently have one painted in desert camo but waiting for some parts before I submit it and such.


I will accept that, but then how come frostbite didn't get a new uniform, or heck a new pilot like the rattler, :)

Author:  chainsawviper [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

Quote:
I will accept that, but then how come frostbite didn't get a new uniform, or heck a new pilot like the rattler, :)

What would Frostbite do with a new pilot?

Seriously though, just because it's the desert doesn't mean it's warm.

Author:  raptor [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

Or maybe it's a real life European training exercise conducted in the late 70's and early 80's by NATO forces.

Attachment:
l_cf1041.jpg
l_cf1041.jpg [ 25.2 KiB | Viewed 1677 times ]


If the cobra vehicles were painted up like that because they were the opposing forces on a training exercise (known as the "red" team for this sort of thing) Tiger Force would make some sense.

But since they couldn't be bothered to give Tiger Force any sort of back story, it doesn't make any sense at all.

For more information see the Point/Counterpoint article here:

http://67.212.190.228/JoeCanuck/OCT08.pdf

PS - I sat in the above plane at the Aircraft Museum in Hamilton. I am way too wide to ever pilot a F 104 starfighter...

- R

Author:  narceron [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

agreed, opfor would have made great sense, I always suspected GIjoe was pretty much a red cell unit, I saw one episode where they actually deploy to test security at umm, some science base.

Author:  momaw nadon [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

chainsawviper wrote:
Seriously though, just because it's the desert doesn't mean it's warm.


Very true, as the Arctic is a desert in definition terms. The Snow Cat is essentially a desert vehicle and was from the start ;-).
momaw nadon

Author:  cabanajack [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

History of the Tigers in US Military

(I think you'll find Wild Bill's character fits the bill)

THE CIVIL WAR

Attachment:
Louisiana Tigers.jpg
Louisiana Tigers.jpg [ 181.06 KiB | Viewed 1417 times ]



The most famous Louisiana unit from the Civil War, this battalion took the nickname "Louisiana Tigers" from its Company B. Its reputation led in time to the nickname being applied to all the Louisiana units in Virginia. Though generally represented as being completely outfitted in Zouave uniforms, the battalion had only one such company-the Tiger Rifles. The battalion began organizing at Camp Walker in New Orleans. It moved to Camp Moore and completed its organization on June 6, 1861, with five companies and 416 men. Ordered to Virginia, the battalion became the first Louisiana unit to be engaged in the war, when it fought a skirmish at Seneca Falls on the Potomac River on June 28. The men played an important role in the Battle of First Manassas, July 21, by helping to hold back the Union flank attack until more troops could come up and form a defensive line. In battle, 8 of the battalion's men were killed, 38 were wounded, and 2 were missing. The battalion was assigned to General Richard Taylor's Louisiana brigade along with the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th Louisiana regiments later in the month. That winter, the men drilled and did picket duty. They sometimes fought with other Confederate units and among themselves. One of the internal fracases led to the December 9 execution by firing squad of two men of Company B, the first men executed in the Army of Northern Virginia. Taylor's brigade joined General Stonewall Jackson's army in the Shenandoah Valley in May, 1862. The battalion played the major role in the capture of Front Royal, May 23. On May 25, the battalion was detached on the left flank of the army and saw no fighting in the Battle of Winchester. The brigade distinguished itself again in the Battle of Port Republic, June 9. Rejoining the Army of Northern Virginia near Richmond, the brigade participated in the Battle of Gaine's Mill, June 27. In that fight, Major Wheat and 5 other men were killed and 16 men were wounded. The battalion was so reduced in strength by the end of the Seven Days' Campaign, and the men were so hard to control following Wheat's death, that it was recommended that the battalion be disbanded. This occured on August 15. During the war, 39 men of the battalion were killed, 15 died of disease, 2 were executed, and 1 died in an accident.


WORLD WAR II

Attachment:
Flying_tigers_decal.png
Flying_tigers_decal.png [ 38.45 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]


Attachment:
FlyingTigerFormation.jpg
FlyingTigerFormation.jpg [ 47.09 KiB | Viewed 1568 times ]


Chanault's Flying Tigers


Within weeks of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the daring exploits of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) captured the attention of the world. The Chinese called them Fei Hu, for the shark's teeth painted on their planes. The world knew them as the legendary Flying Tigers.

Commanded by Clare Chenault of Louisiana, the Flying Tigers were a bunch of hard-drinking airmen who became known as some of the bravest pilots to fly during World War II. In 1937, Chenault, a retired U.S. Army captain, was hired as an advisor to the fledgling Chinese Air Force. He began to lay the groundwork for the American Volunteer Group by having runways built and ordering planes from U.S. manufacturer Curtiss-Wright.

The first contingent of American Volunteer Group pilots left San Francisco on July 10, 1941, aboard the Dutch ship Jaegersfontaine. Just before leaving, Chennault received confirmation of Presidential approval for the second American Volunteer Group of bombers with a schedule of 100 pilots and 181 gunners and radio men to arrive in China by November, 1941, and an equal number to follow in January, 1942.

Upon returning to the Orient in the summer of 1941, Chennault arranged with the British for the use of the Royal Air Force Keydaw airdrome at Toungoo, Burma. Arrangements were made by the Chinese with the British for the assembly and test flying by the A.V.G. of its P-40's. The A.V.G. P-40's were assembled at Rangoon, and all radios, oxygen equipment, and armament were installed by A.V.G. group mechanics at Toungoo.

At Toungoo the volunteer pilots were trained by Chenault, who had taught school in rural Louisiana. The airmen received seventy-two hours of lectures in addition to sixty hours of specialized flying.

The Third A.V.G. squadron moved to Rangoon on December 12, 1941, to join the R.A.F. in the defense of Rangoon. The First and Second squadrons flew from Toungoo to Kunming on the afternoon of the 18th. The first combat for the A.V.G. occurred over southern Yunnan Province on December 20, 1941. In their first combat, a combination of the First and Second Squadrons, shot down nine out of ten Japanese bombers with a loss of one A.V.G. aircraft. The second engagement brought the Third Squadron onto action over Rangoon on December 23, with the R.A.F. flying beside the Tigers. The total damage for the japanese was six bombers and four fighters. The R.A.F. lost five planes and pilots and the A.V.G. lost four planes and two pilots. Overall, the Flying Tigers were undefeated against the Japanese Air Force in more than 50 air battles.

After the American Volunteer Group was disbanded on July 4, 1942, the China Air Task Force of the United States Army Air Forces, commanded by General Chennault, officially took over air operations in China. In early March, 1943, the 14th Air Force was activated under the command of Chennault and replaced the China Air Task Force. Chennault remained in command of the 14th Air Force until the end of July, 1945. General Chennault formally retired from the military for the second time in October, 1945.

Author:  cabanajack [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

VIETNAM WAR

TIGER FORCE RECON


Attachment:
tigerrecon.jpg
tigerrecon.jpg [ 13.18 KiB | Viewed 1565 times ]


Tiger Force was a task force of the United States Army, 1st Battalion (Airborne), 327th Infantry Regiment, 1st Brigade (Separate), 101st Airborne Division, which fought in the Vietnam War.

The platoon-sized unit, approximately 45 paratroopers was founded by Colonel David Hackworth in November 1965 to "outguerrilla the guerrillas." Tiger Force was a highly decorated unit, and paid for its reputation with heavy casualties. In October 1968, Tiger Force's parent battalion was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation by President Lyndon B. Johnson, which included a mention of Tiger Force's service at Dak To in June 1966.

According to one personal account from TigerForceRecon.com:

Quote:
At the time I served with the Tigers,(6/68-1/69) we were brought in by invitation only. Only the most experienced and qualified men were included. Although nominally a platoon sized element, most of the time we were lucky to have about 12 to 15 men. The team was lead most of the time by a Lieutenant and staffed by two medics, and sometimes an FO.

Author:  cabanajack [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So I'm looking at the tiger bat. . .

Sooo, with all that in mind, I see Tiger Force as a select force within the select force that is GI JOE. Where as GI Joe is all clean cut and does things by the book - they are a rogue sub-group of elite soldiers that get away with breaking the rules cause they are so good at what they do. They use whatever equipment they want to and modify it for their needs. That's why they have Rattlers, etc. Due to their unorthodox methods they probably operate a bit under the radar so funding would be limited. And, since they operate in unorthodox methods, having foreign weapons (like the Rattler) comes in handy, sort of like when the SEALs use AK-47s so as to hide American involvement in a conflict.

I also see a tinge of the Black Sheep Squadron or the A-Team.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/