Let's be honest here. If this was "all over stupid little nothing" as you are claiming, no one would give a "LASER BLAST", and we certainly wouldn't have a 5 page thread about it.

Sure, they are just pieces of plastic - but a Lamborghini is just metal and rubber, right?

Point is, there are lots of us who are passionate about these toys, and this thread is a clear example of that. I see both sides of the fence on this, and it's fairly obvious that there are those that are WAY over the fence on each side here, and I seriously don't think those folks are going to change their opinion on the matter.. so what good exactly does this thread serve?

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Well, I think the appropriate term here is "Oops."



Believe me, brother, if someone reproduces these craptastic toys, selling in bulk ain't gonna be a problem.



Ahhh yes, this nebulous concept of "rights". Seems to me an automatic transfer of intellectual property rights and rights to images does NOT instantly transfer with the purchase of a toy. The original owner provided these into the public domain, and there they remain. Sorry, Zoe, those pics of you in your bra and panties are gonna be on the internet till you are 70, time to deal.



Funny, I read this as "Since you exposed us, as the Joeluminati we rightly believe ourselves to be, we will quietly fade into the background and continue withholding stuff from you, because we have
A. thousands of dollars to waste
B. Stuff you don't know about
C. A righteous attitude.

Well, have fun in that secret clubhouse boys.

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True. However, I wouldn't waste money on a Lamborghini, either, and I'm really thinking hard about what I'm spending my money on currently. Honestly, it is nothing. In 20 years, give or take, these figs won't be worth the plastic they are made from. I'm enjoying it now, though certainly not as much after this.



I wasn't going to add anymore to it, but topson decided to try and make ludicrous parallels to art and calling us meanies cause someone made up a name, however long ago, to a group of dudes who decided to take their toys and go home cause they didn't want to share.

THAT'S A RUN ON SENTENCE!

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You are talking about hiding pics of some "artwork" that does not see much light in the history of the toyline. How is keeping pics of them out of people's hands going to change anything? It's not like they can go and physically reproduce the piece and sell it?
Yes, I have images of the original toyline figures that were being drawn up for Hasbro that CabanaJack was so kind enough to email me. Did I go and repro these pics and try to sell them? Nope. What do I do with them? I go and look at them and think about what we could have had back in 82.
I actually tracked down the email for the guy that bought the original Fury Force sketches(Nick Fury Jr, Spook and the rest) that were presented to Marvel.
I asked if I could get better pics of the sketches just so I could work up customs of these figures. I promised him that I would not reprint them in any way. After the first email back from him saying he had them, he never responded back to me about it.
The talks of articles and books have been said for years and years now. I don't think I've ever seen anything written out about stuff like this. If you don't have 100% total history of it, that's fine. You can always go back and add to it when more is found out about the piece. That's always cool to then go back and reread the article again and refresh your memory on the piece.
All in all, hoarding/hiding information on something is never cool.

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Run on sentences are highly underrated.

I don't think this thread has done anything but strengthen each side's view on the matter

The people who have these pieces and haven't shared them have just been re-shown WHY they might not want to share.

The people who think these people who don't share are "hoarders" and should be sharing with the community have just been given an example of what is out there "hidden" in the collections of the "joeluminati", which has re-fueled their passion about how this kind of information should be public knowledge.

So, after 6 pages, we're probably worse off as a community now (both sides) than we were before these images resurfaced.

Good job, everyone.

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I am glad to here that you would not contact me, and you are right that a large majority of collectors would not. Yet, enough do that the owners of these items are tired of dealing with it. So, since they have to deal with it, you suffer because they will not show them to the public any more. Plain and simple.

Yes, most preproduction items are art pieces. These are not toys. They are sculpting models. Those 2-up technowalkers are hand made and hand painted. They each represent the only one in the entire world. How can you not consider them art. I assure you that the people who collect them have them in a display case, not in a toy box with the rest of their childerns toys.

Look, I am an archaeologist and I look at this type of stuff in that light. Most of the guys who have this stuff do intend to show it off, but they are waiting to get the whole story or at least prove their theories behind them. When a new archaeolgy site is found, they do not announce the findings immediately. It takes months and years to investigate the site and prove what it is before it is taken to the public. These prototypes are the same. Typically, there is no information about a piece when it turns up on ebay and it may not even be gi joe. It takes time to research something, when you do not know its name, who made it, when it was made, etc.

You gripe and moan about people not sharing their stuff. So, when they do and they get ripped off. You say it is their fault for not doing a better job of protecting it. The best way to protect it is to not show it to you.

So keep on belittling them. The more you do, the less you will ever see. That is the best way for you to do your part to help the community as a whole.

I like you Stealth and not in a guy who is wearing "big girl panties" kind of way.

Lets be straight about this. It's not about level of hobbiest, it's about money. Everything in the world is. And money makes people act weird. It can bring out the best and worst in their character. The guy who spent $1,000 on a rare piece has to justify that expenditure. So he rationalizes that if he can do something to re-coup some of that cost - like through a rare collectibles book - or repro prints sold at the convention, then he can sleep better at night.

We all do this with our hobby to some extent - if we make customs, resell over stock, make dio stories, we're trying to add value to what we do- rather than feel like we're hoarding. These "Joeilluminati" do so on a higher precipice than the rest of us do. They deal in the behind the scenes story of GI Joe, they track down designers, they track distribution of molds across the world. Really it's admirable.

A confident person can invest in something and want to share it with the world because it's all about the love of the art. But for some people, perhaps more insecure about their decisions, when they spend $1,000 on something they can start to get an isolationist attitude, because if the whole world gets to share something he spent the money on - then his expense seems questionable to him. Perhaps even foolish. That's an alarming feeling.

With the investment made, the guy starts to feel like he's more deserving of the item and it should not be shared with people who didn't make that investment. It's a flawed attitude, because in reality - they chose to go that route - and just like so many other things in society, some people can appreciate things without having to own them, and if you chose to own them that's your perogative, but when you try to hide them - that's their own insecurity being projected on the masses.

Yes, there are plenty of priceless works of art in private collections away from the eye of the public. There are also thousands of museums full of millions of pieces of artwork that are on loan to the museum by the owners because, for the love of the art, the owners wish to share it with the world. The difference isn't in the art or the price, it's in the character of the art owner.

So if you feel like the GI Joe collectors, the commoners, are against you - then they probably are - but it's not for what you own or disrespect for your "level" of hobbiest, it's for the flaw in your character.

Everyone loves Ron Conners books, and loves Mike T's write ups on the origin and fate of action figure molds, and Terrys work on YoJoe and other "illuminati" stuff is very well received and respected. And many people here have already stated they respect an owner's privacy - and that they can wait for formal release of images with background story.

It's not until someone, trying to justify their expense, says something stupid eluding to "the commoners don't deserve to know" secrecy, that these flares come up. Its insulting to the masses who love the hobby. But I don't expect it to end. You can't change people's character nor the effect money has on them.

But with all the pointing fingers going on around here - lets keep it real - and dead-on to the point - this is about money - and what it does to the character of individuals - if it was for the love of the hobby then there'd be no arguments - and any other justifications either way is just hubrous.

ASIDE:

As for my photos on photobucket,

The photos I have are of Larry Hama's notes from his first meeting with Hasbro . (It wasn't Fury Force, that is someone else). They are something he chose to share with me, he showed it to me at his dining room table after lunch one day. And in turn I wanted to share them with the world. Larry's hariy knuckle in the photos is a testament that he didn't mind sharing. Why? For the love of GI JOE.

Larry also wanted to sell the item, and he did - because to someone else - owning the item was of greater value than just looking. Neither of us were wrong to do one or the other. I rather spend my money on going to lunch with friends, someone else rather invest in rare GI Joe history.

I have knocked this mystery figure before for not coming forward, but in hindsight, they really have no reason to. My photos are of excellent quality and have been publicly posted for years.

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That wasn't me. The pic you have posted is of a Marvel concept Larry Hama did, what I have is Ron Rudat concept drawings presented to Marvel at the first meeting, with Larry Hama's notes in the margins. I'd post a link but I gotta run to the doctor, maybe later.

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No, I have those as well. Those I know you sent me. The Fury Force pic above was the largest image I could find online anywhere about the original drawings. I have about 3-4 other images of that group that the single guy has in his property.

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I have to back Topson on the fact that they most certainly are art. I think the art aspect, the quality of the sculpts, is what drew many of us to the hobby. I love you Billy, but when you say it isn't art you reinforce the illuminattis opinion that we lack the level of appreciation for the hobby to be deserving of sharing in their level of involvement.

Topson I think that's awesome that you are an archeolgist, and that you can use your talents to dig up, preserve, and document the origins of GI Joe. And I think most people here have agreed that if future sharing of in depth research isthe goal, they are all for it.

I think there are multiple arguments here are getting distorted. There aren't two sides here, there are seven. I think the "have nots" are only against the notion of "never sharing" - and the some of the "haves" are reacting as if the "have nots" just want pretty pictures and want them now, and don't share your enthusiasm for the bigger story.

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See, I think the difference comes in where people are ok with not "having" the stuff, even making fun of it, but don't feel that want or need to own it for whatever reason.

It's just cool to know about the Joe line, like different facts or trivia. If it's something kitschy (wow can't believe that didn't get the red squiggle), then please show it off but recognize it and have fun with it while stating the facts, etc. behind it.

It's not just Joe/toy collectors who have stuff that wasn't available to the public that were gotten through connections, etc. A friend of mine who worked at Coke for just a few years has a lot of crap from different promotions that they started to try and never followed through, including stuff like the Sprite Doll and a Sprite flask (that they were going to give out at college football games, lol) just to name a few...and he didn't even work with the Sprite product line lol. There's all kinds of stuff like this from several different companies.

I could be in the wrong here, but to me it's just cool to see and know about it. It's nothing earth-shattering or "OH WOW WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN!" etc. etc. (ok i say that and then someone will pull something out that would make me say that lol), but in the end it's just kinda cool to know about.

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Well spoken Cabanajack. There really are mutliple arguments here.
I am sorry for getting on here today and ranting off on those last two posts. I have been at work since 6am and there has been nothing but drama. So, I have been sneaking on here and yojoe to escape in joedom. So once again, sorry to you all for letting my work issues get the better of me here.
Chris

So the people that own this RARE figure or any RARE piece of the Joe world...

What do you do with them? Do you display the piece in such an obvious way so when you have company your get a question about it? I'm curious really, to spend a good chunk of change on something, what do you do with it? i see people pay oodles of money for nice cars, and I am like "Why, a cheap 1999 Honda can get you from A to B".

So that is my question.

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