It's all parties involved no matter who or what fan wants to excuse either side. We've all figured that out years ago. It's just some fans still hold to whatever gets them through the day. Not really much we can do other than file complaints or talk about it on forums and hops it changes.

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Thanks for the reminder on Vietnam, Jay. I know manufacturers I. General have been experiencing a pinch with thei Chinese manufacturing partners.

We also know from Hasbro's defense of it's alleged sweatshop that it still has Chinese contracts.

I haven't noticed country of origin notes on recent joe toys -- is it on the box?

I just saw Captain America toys for $3 each. Considering these toys wind up at secondary stores like Ross for $4, I'd say cost is likely about $3.

The sales model appears to be boom and bust, then: Sell as many as you can at an inflated price, then discount them like hell to clear them out. Makes sense given the two bursts of buzz you get out of a movie (theater release and DVD).

With that in mind it doesn't matter how many waves you get out.

Remember: During Rise of Cobra Hasbro pitched the idea of kids building an army of GI joe movie figures. That didn't happen, so this time we're getting a different strategy: Ninjas.

The Vietnam markings on the TF Bot Shots were on the packaging, might well be the same for Joes:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/ ... 56_350.jpg

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Lifeline was made in China: http://generalsjoes.com/reviews/2011/re ... eline.html

Or at least that one was.

Stores are trying to dictate what's made with no real clue what the market is like, or even paying attention to what sells. Hasbro just nods and goes along instead of fighting it. The result is that toy prices keep going up while half this stuff ends up on clearance or in discount chains for dirt cheap, making me wonder why they don't just sell toys for that price to start with.

I do have to admit, I think Hasbro's gone downhill. Their primary focus is Transformers because those films made the money so most of their other lines get secondary focus. They're bringing back that terrible pop music doll, which I just don't see as being anything but a massive retail bomb because it's hideously outdated and wasn't that great to start with(when I think of the bottom rung of 80s properties...). Not to mention certain legal hassles over a real band name being used without permission, and I would not be surprised if it finally goes to court with all this SOPA and ACTA stuff going on. It's as if Hasbro is asking for trouble with that one and it'll bite them back in some form, at the very least it'll be a retail failure that will probably appeal to a few nostalgic types but probably ignored otherwise, if anything it'll be shadowed by Monster High which is already doing quite well and I don't see anything competing with it anytime soon.

Joes have had a hideously low market presence with stores not caring. If this movie line doesn't sell well it might actually sort of kill it at retail, which honestly, may not be such a bad thing. The mid 90s pretty much tanked it with some bad decisions and a few years off saw it come back strong. Then it died again and came back strong with 25th. Maybe it's time to repeat the cycle, give it time off, matbe bring in new blood to the Hasbro corporate circle to come up with new ideas and new marketing strategies because what they have now really seems... backwards.

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You say something like this about every toy company. Sometimes repeatedly.

In any event, I do agree that there should be a Joe hiatus. Only so my wallet can catch a break. I've never been happier as a toy collector, only to be bummed to be broke. Just being able to mix my marvel figs with my Joe figs makes me deliriously happy.

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I don't think Hasbro's gone downhill because they want to cut some expenses.

The recent Joes are awesome. They look great, they have cool gear and let's admit it, they're very fun to play with.

Marvel figures are hit or miss. The movie ball joint sucks, but the recent Steve Rogers figure is very cool. I'm very happy to have a Spider-Man that fits well with my Joes.

SW figures have never been so cool either. Upgraded poseability, fantastic details, it's a great line.

Maybe they spoiled us with all the extras and realized that they have to cut back a little.
It sucks, but I'd prefer to have some figures without ankle joints than to lose the Joe line.
I'm not sure it would be able to rise again like it did 12 years ago.

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I thought the new Star Wars figures are the bees knees. I don't see how Hasbro has gone down hill.

I hate to admit it, but I'm converted to the new style of figures. The only thing I wish was that they still had a screw in the back so making customs was easier and I'm tired of slicing up my fingers with a knife. That and they take rit dye funny, but that's just the customizer in me speaking.

The toys themselves are awesome.

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But the stores don't call Hasbro and say "we want a ton of wave XX". They just order the product when they are low. The stores don't set the production numbers at the factories, Hasbro does. If there is a glut of Wave XX in the stores, it's because Hasbro made it and shipped it to them when they ordered it.

Some stores would probably love to be able to order specific waves or cases from Hasbro. How many specialty / collector shops would've skipped all of the Thor wave 1 refresh cases they got, and ordered more of the Warriors Three, Sif, and King Loki cases if they could've.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, and we (the stores included) are at the mercy of Hasbro, and the case assortments they choose.

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Yeah, Lifeline came out before the Bot Shots items, though. And, odds are a Chinese factory is still under contract from Hasbo, unlike the Bot Shots items which are a brand new line Hasbro could immediately shop a new facility for.

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Um. Every store I've ever known is able to order by wave. It's how Duamond offers product, and online stores like bbts or smalljoes simply couldn't operate if they couldn't order specific wages and revisions. The case packs and production numbers are determined by Hasbro sure, but that's with input from their biggest customers, Target and Wal mart. It's a sad fact that major retailers overorder early waves of movie product and whichever waves come out in November.

Really. Every local shop I've ever talked to, who have Hasbro accounts, have said they have absolutely no control over what cases they get shipped. Their shipments are usually spread out a bit, so they are usually guaranteed that they will get a little from each wave, but they've completely missed out on entire waves too, because Hasbro never sent them any. I've also heard this from people I know who work at TRU.
It is interesting to hear otherwise.

If BBTS (and other shops) can specifically order popular waves and cases, then why don't they? I would think that these online stores would be loaded with Renagades Storm Shadows, Sifs, King Lokis, and such.

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Well, if TRUs distribution centers don't get a wave, or the company as a whole doesn't order it, then the stores will never get it. As to the smaller stores, I have no clue why Hasbro wouldn't allow account holders to order specific waves. That may be true, I don't know. I do know that if you order through Diamond, when they carry stuff anyway, it's always specific cases/waves. Bbts sells cases too, as do other e-tailers. I can't imagine they would do so, let alone take preorders on them, if they couldn't be certain of what they'd get when they ordered. And bbts desire to offer Resolute Stormy was why they ended up having to discount nearly all the other Renegades characters. Since every figure from wave 3 except Storm Shadow shipped in wave 4 too. They're only going to burden themselves with so many unsellable figures, regardless of how many Storm Shadows they might be able to move. Same with Sif. The rest of that case pack is garbage. They won't buy 10 figures they can't sell for one or two they can. And case packs are Hasbro determined and heavily influenced by retailers.

Well I rather mis-worded part of my response. As it was explained to me, they could "request" what ever they wanted, but what they actually received was a mystery until they actually got it. Most of the time they just got the earlier over-produced waves dumped on them, with maybe a single new case mixed in.

Same thing I heard about TRU. The manager at the local store talked to someone at the DC, who told them that they were unable to get specific case assortments from the manufacturer. They could request them, but could not guarantee what would actually be shipped to them.

Of course this was all basically second hand info too. I've never dealt with Hasbro directly and It's entirely possible these guys may not have had a clue what they were doing.

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Hasbro produces a product; a retailer like TRU/Walmart/Target orders from them; Hasbro sends them what they have/what they ordered; retailer gets what they "ordered"; retailer sends to own distribution center; store/outlet sells "G.I. Joe 3.75"; store orders from center to replenish stock/order specific cases; dc sends what they ordered/what they have.

Happens all the time, if they order wave 4 2012, and hasbro has half wave 4 half wave 3, they ship that as a full order.

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