Shipwreck at least did get a decent update toward the end of the 25A line in the last Joe 5-pack.

Pretty much every figure from the first two 5-packs needs to be updated that hasn't already (or isn't slated to get one, like Cobra Commander). Gung Ho is desperately in need of one, and Scarlett and Roadblock seriously need updates too. Duke could really use one too, but I'm generally fine with using the POC wave 3 version in its place.

Like others have said, most 25A figures can use an update. I think the ones I want to see most are drivers/pilots that were mostly thrown together. Cutter (a baseball cap head is needed), Slipstream, and Thunder definitely come to mind. I said yesterday that I was generally fine with the Club's Leatherneck, but the concept case one is much better and deserves release (though, if the arms aren't too out of proportion, I'd rather see the concept Flint/Hit & Run arms used rather than the Battle-Kata Roadblock arms, as they more closely match the original figure's arms).

I would argue that roughly 99% of the 25th figures sucked. Some of the laziest and worst figures ever put out by hasbro. There were some gems, sure, but not enough in those days to convince me to collect them.

Lol... And at the time they first came out, everyone was sucking their dicks so hard, calling them the second coming of GI Joe and the single greatest achievement made by man or beast...

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After the gorilla arms and short torsos of the Spy Troops and VvV era, the 25th figures were more than welcomed.
Then the honeymoon ended when we realized that the arms couldn't bend properly and that the diaper crotch made the leg movements more limited.

Now that you mention it, except for a few carded figures and Ninja-Ku, I don't have any 25th figures on display since I got even better versions of the characters after the first movie line and Pursuit of Cobra.

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Are you kidding? They were learning as they went. Of course there were going to be some bad ones. That's true of ANYTHING. Of course looking back at them now they aren't that great but at the time we were getting them, they were certainly better than what we had been getting. Compare a figure from later in the RAH run to one of the first figures and you'll find the exact same thing.

Any figure with "Duke Arms" sucks. OK, just their arms suck. I was kinda irked that I paid $300 for the Mission:Brazil set and two of the figures, Leatherneck and Wet Suit, used those arms when there were so many more good choices available, especially since the RoC and PoC lines were out already and such vast improvements over the 25th line.

I don't don't know when it started, but I'm glad a couple of the Star Wars lines modernized along the ME lines, that side of Hasbro just needs to move past the T-crotch and into the T-bar...............

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I think the first Duke was pretty bad. Any figure that had the suicide wrists really.
Based on what I actually own;
I think Destro, the BAT, the 2nd or 3rd Zartan with the Scooty Puff Jr. Chameleon, the 3rd LJ are some of the best.
I think Zarana and the 30th Viper, Cobra Soldier, Road-Pig, Zanya, Airtight, Resolute Scarlett, Techno-Viper are outstanding, as well as the DG Cobra Trooper.

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You won't find figures in the ARAH run that can't sit down properly or can't bend their elbows a full 90 degrees. They were lazy with the 25th line. "They were learning as they went" is no excuse for not making sure joints actually functioned. They were also lazy in how many times they reused the same crappy molds. The suicide duke wrists are another example of poor design.

if i recall correctly suicide arms where blamed on the chinese.... so much blame...

is it any wonder so many of us don't believe what they say any more?

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Oh, and don't forget the awful mid torso joint, which serves no purpose and is still on on these modern figures, except now they cover it up with vests or armor. Thank god they stopped trying to add mid torso joints to every star wars figure.

The 25A figures I have on display:

2nd 5 pack Baroness
DD Zartan
1st 5 pack Destro
1st 5 pack CC -- ultimate CC will replace him.
The Dreadnoks -- I actually think Buzzer and Ripper turned out great. Torch, sadly, sucks.
The Crimson twins
Wild Weasel (he's awesome)
BATS
Crimson Guard -- looking forward to replacing/augmenting these with the new Renegades guys.
Croc-Master

Snow Job (him too)
Bazooka
Barbecue
Tunnel Rat
Flint -- with Endor Rebel Commando hands
2nd 5 pack Lady Jaye
2nd 5 pack Shipwreck -- alternating with the DG Shipwreck
General Hawk

Zartan, Baroness, the BATs, Lady Jaye, Shipwreck, BBQ and Bazooka are all pretty awesome. The only replacements I'm really seeking are the ones shown in the concept case. Though a new Serpentor would be welcome.

No, but you'll find 13 that couldn't swivel their arms at first.

They DID function. Maybe not to the extent that everyone would have liked, but they did function. Like I said, they were learning as they went. They eventually got it right, it just took time which is true for EVERYTHING. YOU couldn't walk when you were first "created". Does that mean that baby you was made "lazy"? Cars used to need a crank to start them. Does that mean they were made "lazy"? TVs used to only show a B&W picture. Were they made "lazy" too? It's called growing pains. Were those first figures as good as they could have been? Of course not. Go look at the first wave of ANY new style of product on the market and you'll find the same kind of problems. It doesn't mean it was a "lazy" design or anything of that sort. I suppose you think Pong was a "lazy" design too.

THEY DO THAT NOW. Look at how many figures use either v54 Snake Eyes or Shock Trooper as a starting point. They've done this since DAY ONE IN 1982. They will always do that. It's how they recoup some of their tooling costs. It's not being "lazy". It's smart business.

That happens all the time with ALL their lines. I'm quite sure Mattel has the exact same problems too.

Along with chaotic fire drills and urine contaminated sodas.



New sculpt developed a vocal fan base, wanting con sets and TRU six-packs to be in "new sculpt" style. Once 25th was the new format for retail, those fans moved en masse to "generation 3" (as few call it). Now you can buy new sculpts on ebay by the bucket load, with free shipping. (Exaggerating) They never got their con sets.

Footloose had used the unreleased Kwinn arms. They might recycle those.again.

Slow down, dude - you're losing your grammar.

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