was discussing Joes with a dude on the street (who wouldve thought, joe fans in the hood) and he was mentioning that the joes were lacking in several areas:

ONE firefighter (Barbecue)
6 medics (Doc, New Doc, Stretcher, Lifeline, Med Alert, and Sideswipe)
ONE M.P. (Law)
9 Navy Personnel (Shipwreck, Deep Six, Torpedo, Wetdown, Keel Haul, Tracker, Topside, Wetsuit, Depth Charge, Rampart, Link Talbot)
A SEVERE lack of Maruines
and few techs

so, do you think the joes need to bulk up, or are they fine?

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How many medics do you need, or firefighters for that matter?

In regards to medics, you can expect 1, or maybe 2 per platon in today's army, that is a 1:30 ratio (averaged out), if they have 6 medics, then they could cover down on 180 troops or so. couple that argument with the fact that every joe is most likely trained in the basics of trauma and care, they travel in small teams, and for short duration missions I would argue they are probably about just right if not a little flush. Anyone who wants to argue the Special Forces model of an 18D on with each small team needs to remember that a lot of their time effort and training is geared towards the indiges they will train with/fight with/support, not just their team.

As for firefighters, I was always surprised they even had one. Granted he had a job on the TTBP when he first appeared in Marvel, but on the face of it, not so sure he is needed on the team. I happen to like him, and he will always be onmy team, but rationally I have to ask why, and then ask why would we need more?

I will leave the other "lacking" for others

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I always thought the team needed more desert specialists, but I was told by a Hasbro representative in the early 1990's at one of the early conventions that arctic figures sold better, which was why there was more of those than desert. Given real-life military events, that may not entirely be the case today.

The team could possibly use more Marines -- you've got Gung-Ho and Leatherneck most prominently, and Mainframe had some service in the Marines.

And heck, there's only ever been ONE guy from the Coast Guard, and they even made a big deal of that on his file card!

Blast Off is a Marine and a firefighter so you can add one of each to those tallies. nevermind his obscurity, he's still a Joe.

here's another shortage on the GIJoe roster: in the modern military today where IEDs [improvised explosives] are a big problem in foreign lands and well thought-out big bombs are more advanced than ever, Tripwire and Lightfoot (and Longarm in a more limited capacity) have to be feeling pretty stressed out being the only EOD guys on the team.



in my 'verse, a LOT of Joes have either been reclassified into non-Army services OR they have different tasks than their filecards spelled out because I like my Joe team to be far more well-rounded than Hasbro's GIJoe is.

Don't forget Tunnel Rat and Tollbooth!
Engineers play a huge role in dealing with IEDs, that was my main missin in 2006 as commander of a Combat Enigineer Company.

Were they any other Joes with secondary specialites of EOD or Engineer?

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But these guys are special forces types.

I would think EOD is a pretty big component, my cousin jonathan was in Afghanistan for like 5 years doing that stuff, in freakin caves. Well, technically, he was doing the opposite, I have no idea how the military works, lol.

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EOD is actualy a very low-density MOS across the services. they are alsways offering bonuses to switch over. they are alwasy in high demand in the last 5-7 years, and never enough. Typically you can see a 2-man detachment working a Brigade sized sector, or sometimes even 2 teams serving a division sector. we are talking a ration of 2 to 4000 or even 4 to 15000-37000 (lots of variables)

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I think it depends on what your Joe team is supposed to be (and whatever Hasbro and their current cartoon/comic media compatriots are pushing).

No matter how you slice it, they aren't a traditional military unit. The multi-branch aspect alone throws traditional military org structure pretty much out the window. But if you were trying to adhere to that as a baseline then Tsunami's got your numbers and ratios for you.

I don't even see the team lining up parallel to what Special Forces teams are doing out in the world today (or were in the 80s and 90s) in terms of how they're built.

Heck, technically Joe couldn't be regular military given the amount of domestic operations it engages in (I know there have been exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, but they're almost always challenged and Joe couldn't operate the way it does under that kind of legal/congressional scrutiny -- that's why I've cast Cobra as sorrt of a domestic insurgency, to provide a potential legal workaround).

I see Joe more as a CTU-like organization (or an aspect of Homeland Security). They'd all be former military or on loan from the military and various other federal organizations and their primary responsibility would be the battling of terrorist acts and forces operating on U.S. soil. Their investigations (and they'd have to conduct investigations frequently, explaining the number of Joes with Intel backgrounds) would require them to work outside the U.S. and in cooperation with regular and Special Forces military on ocassion (which is why they'd need members from all branches of the service, preferably with Special Forces background) as well as National/Coast Guard representation (if anything, Joe's light on the reserves side of the equation).

The need for a firefighting specialist, I think, isn't so much to actively combat fires as it is to coordinate the efforts of local authorities in the event of an attack. Same with SWAT. Not to say that Barbecue and Shockwave wouldn't be on the front lines with local cops and firefighters, but they'd be more tactical operations specialists and consultants. CBR guys would be the same thing and, obviously in a world where bio-terror is becoming a major concern, you'd need more of them on a team like this.

Frankly I think Joe needs more computer specialists and information analysts to be relevant in today's world. And less front-line traditional military types. That's part of the reason I don't really recognize but a handful of characters introduced after 1986. They (Hasbro) were turning Joe into its own unrealistic branch of the armed services and taking Cobra away from its terrorist roots (They have an emperor? Really?).

I guess that's a long way to say it all depends on how you play.

Stalker was GI Joes first medic.

This thread is pointless without taking into consideration their secondary specialties.

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I agree, I was just working on my TF Mercer file card and he has explosives expert list as his secondary ('91).

I also fully agree with the majority of what Spin Doctor has to say. the Joe team is very hard to shoehorn into a traditional structure or a direct comparison of existing units or orgs.

"It is what it is" and it is great because it is so flexible has the abilty to morph or change (both as a fan's own 'verse, and in the media).

I look at the Posse Comitatus Act all the time and implications for stuff like disaster recovery and relief, and it never occured to me that the Joe team would be in violation of it all day long (and twice on Sunday). Great job on that one, really made me look at their ops in a new perspective.

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Spinny and Tsunami reminded me of when I read up on the origin of Delta Force. They were looking for soldiers with unique specilities such as explosives or being well versed in driving different kinds of trucks. They didn't necessarily have a wish list to start with, they'd interview each candidate and find out what his "speciality" may be and if he passed the rest of the requirements he then became the team's Clutch or Zap or Sno-Job. I'd imagine at some point you say, we have enough truck drivers, lets seek out a medic, but at the onset it was take what you can get.

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I wonder why?

For instance some people in FL have never even seen snow which was a shock to me.
I mean NEVER seen it in real life.

Yet, Iceberg, Snow Job, Frostbite, etc. :/

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Oh and because there are many faceless greenshirts, I think guys like MP's, Firefighters, etc. are just the faceless support staff.
Kinda like the Viper corps for Cobra and so they are there but not given face time except for say barbeque or maybe some other weird ones.

I tell you what I would like to see is a Dr. Mindbender type joe scientist. Maybe not too crazy, eccentric somewhat, but still like the guy from Bond, etc.

Somebody who is a permanent fixture for wealth and info and developing cool gadgets etc.

You need a guy like that if you are super secret and special.

preferably with white hair and glasses.

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Why does this always come up? The Marines don't have Special Forces like the other branches do. They are the front line general infantry of the military. It is normal that there would be more choosen from the other branches because of that reason a lone. It's like why are there no Reserves on the GI Joe team, it's pointless. The skill set that the Marines bring in would not work for a Special Forces unit in most cases too. That is 2 reasons, and I know there are more. Just think about it a little and you can come up with many.

momaw nadon

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Ninja's!



Yes, that's a good one.
And maybe a real mechanic, (just like Techno-Viper) an expert in (battlefield)repair. Not just like Crankcase and Clutch, but one who's primary goal is to repair vehicles and not driving an assault vehicle.
Maybe a Joe Interrogator, but perhaps Bullhorn fills that place.
Both parties need dirtbike racers, and men + bikes à la Funskool Streethawk.

Cobra definately needs a doghandler, which will be a near future custom of me.
And a prison guard.


Tim 121RVC