Which form of knee articulation do you prefer: the double hinge as seen on most of the new 25th figures, or the swivel + hinge as seen on Scarlett and Baroness?
Ideally, I'd like to see a mix with swivel + double hinge, but I think that may be too busy and lead to weakened legs.

My thinking on it is for figures such as Roadblock. The double-hinge would've been nice on him, but I think the swivel/hinge would've been even better. Then he could've been put into more realistic sitting poses, similar to the pose of the machine gunner from the little green army men.

Sure, some sort of pivot at the hip would give a more realistic movement, since a real knee does not swivel side-to-side, the movement coming from the hip instead. But I don't think there's a good way to pull that sort of movement off with Joe construction, without sacrificing a bit of the aesthetics. So I'm willing to sacrifice some realistic movement for overall articulation.

Don't get me wrong, I love the figures as we're getting them. I just find it interesting that the swivel seems to be confined to female figures, and I'd love to see it on some of the figures whose specialty or background could use the posing. Imagine Roadblock in standard machine gunner's crouch, or Storm Shadow, Spirit, or Snake Eyes in a meditation ("Indian style") pose. I think that could help dioramas a lot.

I'm all for articulation, as well as it's hidden. The swivel works better on the female form because the legs taper above the knee in their form-fitting outfits. This could also work well on characters in wetsuits or bodysuits, though.

I'd rather have the double hinge. It works better and ahs more range of motion. Whielt eh SWa nd Indiana Jones figures look good standing in one pose they look weird when sitting or running. That weird mid leg cuff just doens't look right in any other pose.

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I'm not sure what language you started out that sentence in, but I think I get the gist of what you are saying. And I disagree. I've gotten lots of cool poses out of my Indy figures and the super articulated Star Wars figures, including running.

As to the knee articulation, I would think that the ideal would be to find a way to do both, though I've never seen that done before, and I don't know if that would screw up the aesthetics just too much.

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The MicroSister, MicroLady2, and MicroMan2 bodies have double knees with swivels right at the end of the thigh. There are gaps on either topside of the kneecap, but they're nothing grotesquely obvious, imho. I also recall the Boba Fett that first came with the jetflames standee had his left leg with double knees + swivel.

I rather wish Joes would adopt a lot of the BnB wrestlehead's engineering. The only flaws I see on them figs are their inability to be disassembled and the small range of motion the small shoulder balls allow. They could swing wider if they were Barrage or SS Magneto sized.



/Pluv knows Gaelic?

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My issue with the double hinge is it tends to give the leg a "pinched" look, which actually is not an issue for me if the figure is female (recently swapped a pair of 25A Hawk legs onto a female body, and the result was very natural) but turns me off with male figures like Roadblock, as it renders the leg too skinny to look good. It's otherwise a very good style of hinge with a wide range of poses and seems to be a lot more stable in those poses than the more traditional knee hinges (good, deep kneeling and seated positions, and ideal for say, riding horseback.)

At the same time, I'm in love with the hidden aspect of the swivel hinge (I use a lot of Star Wars figures for my customs) but in that case, mostly for aesthetic reasons (you don't have the "pinched" look and the separation of the two parts is harder to notice), but it seems to be a bit less stable when posing than the double hinge, which rather surprised me (particularly with Star Wars figures), though the Henry Jones swivel knee seems to be an exception. BTW, that's probably the best example, by far, of how to do a swivel knee joint--I honestly didn't even know he HAD a knee joint until I moved the leg! Very well hidden, strong and stable...a thing of beauty in it's own right.

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Echo the above. When I look at the James Bond figure I LBC'd using the Golden Compass head and the Arc of the Covenant Indy body, I can't help but enjoy the almost seamlessness due to the lack of a screwhole in the inner thigh. It just almost suspends disbelief a little better.

I almost wish they'd employ this style of articulation, and size for that matter, when they designed the larger Resident Evil figures. Both of long ago, and the recent Resident Evil 4 figures. They were marvelously sculpted, but I wish they were this Indy size, and with the same articulation. It would have rocked.

I still appreciate RAH, my choice for customizing, but to see that they found a way to make a posable leg, without the need for a thigh hole and visible screw, shows thinking in the right direction.

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For most things, I find the upper leg rotation gives better poses, but the double knee allows for better crouches. Even with the backs of the legs notched to let her knees bend farther than 90 degrees and her pelvis opened up for better range of motion in her hips, Scarlett still can't pull off a really good crouch.

Indiana Jones, and most Star Wars figures can't be properly posed, because they use an obsolete hip design.

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First, I am a bad typer. Bad horrible typer.

Second, I didn't say they couldn't be posed running or sitting. I said they look weird when they are. That little knee/thigh cuff that the joint creates only looks good asthetically when the figure is just standing straight up. When posed running or sitting they end up having a weird cufff on the top of their knee and some figures have an even worse back of the knee cuff. It doesn't look as good to me as the double hinge joint does.

Now on elbows I think it actually works better and is stronger than a double hinged for holding stuff in their hands.

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Elbows it works very well, provides particularly given the range of movement of the human arm.

What I would love to see--and sorry for getting OT here--is an elbow/shoulder joint combination that can be posed to hold a rifle (or maybe even a bow, or crossbow) in a normal firing position. The two problems I keep seeing that would stop this are the rear "cuff" of the shoulder socket, and elbows are still limited to a 90 degree bend on figures (or about 75 degree on 25A, without modification). That's assuming ones with movable elbows, and not the slash-joint ones found on many SW figures. (I hate slash elbows. ) It's actually something where a double-joint elbow might work, I'm thinking? Does it sound possible?

All I know is, it's my Holy Grail of figure part ideals.

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Not only possible, but extant in the MicroMan and Motion Revive figs. If there's any difficulty with any of them achieving a 'sniper hold' pose, it's due to the hardness of the plastic torso being unable to compress like a real person's pectoral/boob would.

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I learn something new every day (and find a Grail). Thanks for pointing that out, think it's time for me to pay a visit to Smalljoes.

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Personally, I don't find much use for the double hinged knees in Joes. They're great for ML & other superhero toys but not for Joes. I mean, seriously, how many times do you put your Joes in crouching poses like Spider-Man, or have them flying with one knee fully bent like Superman? I really don't see the need for double-hinged knees in Joes since I don't really pose them with fully bent legs. Double hinged elbows are a different matter though. Those are absolute neccessities. True ball jointed shoulders would be nice too so the Joes could fire a pistol with two hands.

- JM

I've found they're pretty good for getting them in some vehicles, and some poses that just don't look right with one or the other section of the new bent, but if you bend both slightly, they're just right. I will say if they could get the swivel in there and looking right, I'd take it over the double hinge.

P-Luv, I see where you are coming from, but I think some of that comes down to designer work, and with a different designer, it could be made to work a bit differently and still look good.

What might be ideal, is if they took the Scarlett style knee joint, and went with a ball for the upper section, and added a slit to the back of the upper leg. That would give both the rotational joint, and the double joint, without drastically altering the existing leg construction.

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