TV series that tie-in directly with films haven't really worked in a good while.

Since for a number of reasons the obligatory sequels won't refer to anything from the TV series anyway, it's usually wiser to get TV people to set something up for TV. Between Transformers and Revenge of the Fallen, there was Transformers: Animated, which Renegades owes a lot to.

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Transformers is a different animal. Trying to emulate what happened with Transformers with G.I. Joe (movie success=toy success) didn't work. It's apples and oranges.

Pursuit of Cobra wouldn't be tying directly into the film. It would be based on the film and it's own thing, able to do it's own stories. Could have created a "B-Team" using the PoC characters: Beachhead, Snow Job, Recondo, etc.. and not even hit on the RoC Alpha Team.

SHIELD ties into the Avengers, but on the edges, a PoC cartoon could have done the same (whether SHIELD is good or not is all opinion and it seems to be doing well in the ratings).

The point is that Joe needs a consistent vision. Back in the 80s we had that with figures/comics/cartoon all looking the same. There were differences in tone/style but you could look at all 3 and see how they connected. One could easily move back and forth and know generally who was who and what was going on.

Going from RoC to Renegades, you didn't have that.

JOe is not at the point where it can have multiple visions at once.

And don't forget the Resolute line. The story was pretty cool, and the ninja battle was epic, but it seemed more like a test than a full fledged effort.
I think GI Joe should follow a game platform like HALO and COD series than be movie based. The game would garner interest from older kids and teens, and eventually lead back to tie in toys. Interactive entertainment is the future. A good HALO/Ghost Recon/COD type GI Joe game would revitalize the brand. And with parental/difficulty controls users could have anything from a "classic cartoon" experience to a full blown Ghost Recon Alpha movie/Larry-Hama-Ninja-slice-fest experience

Lots of great points in this thread. I think the original point is still valid - Kwinn was available at a decent price online for awhile (probably still is) while other characters sold out lightning-quick or are only available for $25+ on Ebay. I even passed on Kwinn the time I saw him at retail - in retrospect I shouldn't have: as others have said, he's a customs gem that is a great base for any plain-clothes character.

But the larger issues being raised are important. I don't know why, but something finally clicked in my brain thinking about my local TRUs the other night:

1. Action figures aren't dead. There's a lot of shelf space devoted to them in TRU.
2. First action fig aisle I always pass in the video game/movie/tv series figs. These lines tend to larger scale (5-6" or 8" or even 12"), high detail, fairly low articulation. Small runs - just maybe 5 or 6 figs in a line, usually no vehicles.
3. Wrestling aisle is chock-full and has been for a long time. Lots of different scales; medium detail, fairly low artic.
4. Cartoony-aisle with things like Ben-10, Toy Story, and TMNT. Lots of low artic, but robust lines with lots of product (figs, vehicles).
5. TRU Heroes aisle - NO cartoon, video game, movie or comic tie in. Just a true standalone toy line. Big aisle, chock-full, has been for a long time. Everything is chunky, low-features vehicles and low-artic figs. Military, rescue, pirates, fantasy, western.
6. Hasbro aisle - SW and TF holding their own. GI Joe usually little to no presence. Marvel with big movie, TV, and comic support doing well.
7. Playmobil - NO cartoon, video game, movie, comic tie in. Another standalone toy line. Big selection, chock-full. Low-detail, low artic figs. Wide variety again - civilan, rescue, ghost pirates, knights, sci-fi, western, etc.

So where the heck does that leave Joe? It could follow suit with the first aisle and with a decent movie/game/tv it could maybe survive as a small line (5-6 figs, little to no vehicles).

It's apparently not going to have massive following / TV/Movie support like wrestling or SW or TF or BEN-10 or TMNT. I will give Hasbro the benefit of the doubt that they shopped things like Renegades around to all the networks and nobody bit. Dunno why - seemed like a great show with real potential.

So it can be an every-other-year small movie line -OR- maybe try to crack the standalone nut that True Heroes and Playmobil did. Not sure either would please us.

IMO, there are several things that have made Playmobil successful over the decades. The imagination shown by the designers in picking new ranges, the sheer range of themes, the playability of the toys, vehicles and playsets. playsets. Plus the fact that the themes resonate with most kids: cowboys and indians, astronauts and space, cops and robbers, firemen, explorers and adventurers, dinosaurs, vikings, fantasy, etc. PLus they have lines specifically aimed at girls and younger children.

G.I. Joe is a military toy. Full stop.It has a limited appeal. In all fairness, ARAH seems to have had more mass appeal than anything produced in the last 10 years or so.

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The appeal of True Heroes is that it's cheap. You can get a huge set with two vehicles, several accessories and figures for about $40. Packs of figures are $10 for 4 figures. They even branched out to fantasy and pirate themes. Folks who want to give a little boy some military toys get a lot more for their bucks. Without brand recognition, why would anybody pay $30 for a GI Joe Jeep when they can get a True Hero set with an armored truck and police car for the same price?

Playmobil has been a fan favorite for 40 years. Every figures and sets are compatible and the line grows every years with new themes and accessories. It only takes a little bit of imagination to create a whole world of adventures with a few sets and figures. They even made cavemen and while kids didn't really know what to do with that line (it didn't last long), I think they make awesome barbarians to pit against my knights.

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Yep, totally agree. With all the talk on this board of GI Joe going the AT route, it makes me think some variation of that could work. If TRU Heroes and Playmobil were more of the simple/basic design, and then if AT gave you fuller articulation, more realistic design, more features, etc. (but also more $$$), maybe it could tap into that same idea. Would kids/parents pay more even if it was substantially cooler? I dunno.

It certainly wouldn't be "Joe" as we know it anymore, but maybe it could work. It's not any one thing - it's only a style/scale of action figs, playsets, and vehicles. "Joe"-style astronauts, pirates, rescuers, adventurers, etc. Maybe keep some of the Joe aspects like filecards, detailed & person-specific accessories, feature-packed vehicles, etc.

Just trying to look at the current landscape of action figs and decipher which formulas work. Even having a mega-hit movie does NOT necessarily translate to lasting toy-line success - i.e. Avatar.


EDIT - I forgot to mention the Animal Planet line, but to me that falls under the Tru heroes; it's all stuff made by Chap Mei and re-branded as a more generic adventure line. Again, based on shelf-space alone, it seems to be doing well.

I also forgot about the ironically successful Corps! line - started as a cheap Joe-knockoff, and now it's still in every WM in the country, while Joe is nowhere to be found. Cheap military figs like these and True Heroes seems to be all that sells these days.

The interesting thing about Playmobil to me is it ain't cheap - Joe prices or worse, but great brand recognition.

Lanard's Corps! sell because they cost a lot less than GI Joe. They even have a 10 figures set that is about $12.
10 characters for the price of a single Joe figure!
For parents, the choice is simple since either way, the toy will end up on the pile as soon as the next fad comes out so they'll get the $3 figure.

This isn't the 80's when the Joe brand had name and character recognition. Back then, the characters were as popular as comic super heroes.
Now, ask an average 7 years old that didn't grow up around a Joe collector if he prefers Mirage from the Corps! or Storm Shadow from GI joe and neither names will ring a bell.

GI Joe is now the generic name for military figures, but people won't pay for the actual thing (if they can actually find it in store).

Like they said 50 years ago: "Only GI Joe is GI Joe."

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The Corps! is partly (fully?) owned by Wal-Mart I believe and True Heroes is partly (fully?) owned by Toys 'R Us.

If True Heroes is owned by TRU, it's a good sign that TRU picked up G.I. Joe as an exclusive since they already had a military line. It shows that they believe in the the brand.

Yes it is a good sign that maybe they see some sort of a symbiotic relationship between the two - people who supplement one with the other. Not sure at what point Joe becomes a threat to their home brand instead of a feeder - but Joe certainly isn't that right now


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What? No.

Wal-Mart just has a deal with Lanard to distribute largely through them.

And TRU just licenses these HK wholesaler toymakers' products to get them done in their "house brand"'s packaging. TRU owns the names, but they still have to acquire licenses from the original toymakers to sell stuff like Chap Mei's Soldier Force and Pirate Expeditions under their True Heroes/True Legends brands.

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